Known number of deaths while claiming incapacity benefits nears 100,000
![[Picture: Skwawkbox blog]](https://voxpoliticalonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/dwpp.jpg)
[Picture: Skwawkbox blog]
This represents an increase to an average of 99 deaths per day or 692 per week, between the start of December 2011 and the end of February 2014 – compared with 32 deaths per day/222 per week between January and November 2011.
The DWP has strenuously asserted that “any causal effect between benefits and mortality cannot be assumed from these statistics”.
It is correct to make this point.
The DWP has also claimed that “these isolated figures provide limited scope for analysis and nothing can be gained from this publication that would allow the reader to form any judgement as to the effects or impacts of the Work Capability Assessment”.
However, the increase in the frequency of these deaths is enough to raise questions about the way the incapacity benefit system is being run – questions that demand full, frank and immediate answers.
For example, the work-related activity group is composed entirely of people who are expected to recover from their illnesses and be well enough to return to work within a year. In that group, there should be no deaths at all – barring accidents. Why have nearly 10,000 people lost their lives after being assigned there?
Deaths in the support group and the assessment phase are more problematic because they involve people who do have serious illnesses, many of whom may be expected to die while claiming. But are these deaths being hastened artificially by the DWP’s treatment of them?
A statistical release published today (August 27) in response to my Freedom of Information request dating back to May 28, 2014, states that the total number of deaths involving claimants of Incapacity Benefit, Employment and Support Allowance and Severe Disablement Allowance – between the start of December 2011 and the end of February 2014 is 81,140, including 50,580 (ESA claimants) and 30,560 (IB/SDA claimants). All figures are rounded up to the nearest 10.
Add this to the 10,600 deaths that were already known between January and November 2011 and you have 91,740.
Information for ESA claimants shows:
- 7,540 deaths while claims were being assessed, bringing the known total to 9,740.
- 7,200 deaths in the work-related activity group, bringing the known total to 8,500.
- 32,530 deaths in the support group, bringing the known total to 39,630.
- And 3,320 deaths in which the claimant was not in receipt of any benefit payment and is therefore marked as “unknown”.
The total number of claimants who flowed off ESA, IB or SDA whose date of death was at the same time and of those the number with a WCA decision of “fit for work”, between December 2011 to February 2014 was 2,650 (2,380 ESA, 270 IB/SDA).
And the total number of individuals who flowed off ESA, IB or SDA whose date of death was at the same time with a completed appeal following a WCA decision of “fit for work”, Great Britain: December 2011 to February 2014 was 1,360 (1,340 ESA, 20 IB/SDA).
The new numbers suggest the average number of deaths per day between January 2011 and February 2014 was around 79.5 – 556 per week.
This compares with an average between January and November 2011 of around 32 per day – 222 per week.
This Writer has not yet examined the DWP’s accompanying statistical release – providing the fudged Age-Standardised Mortality Rates between 2003 and 2014. The information in this one states that mortality dropped from 1,111 deaths per 100,000 (across all three benefits) to 1,032.
But claims for Incapacity Benefit (ESA didn’t exist at the time) were at an all-time high in 2003 – of nearly three million throughout the year. The numbers claiming this kind of benefit have both fallen and risen since then.
So what are we to conclude?
Firstly, the figures released today demand more considered, in-depth study than can be managed by This Writer within an hour or so of their release.
Second, that the DWP should drop its appeal against publishing them (for obvious reasons).
Third, that the Age-Standardised Mortality Rates give a false picture of the number of deaths – as predicted on this blog.
Finally, that serious questions must now be asked about the way incapacity benefits are being administered by the Department for Work and Pensions under Iain Duncan Smith.
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I feel physically sick, the number of people dying is accelerating under this government. What do we do to stop them?
I wonder if the statistics will be sent to the court of human rights? some how i doubt it. They will come up with some excuse.And dear dunked in **** will carry on murdering people till they are voted out. which i cant see happening soon either. UNFORTUNATELY
The torys plan to scrap the human rights law
http://www.mirror.co.uk/usvsth3m/13-basic-rights-youre-going-5673763 so i doubt they care about what the general public think, they only want opinions from the rich who have a big house and lots of money, because they can afford to defend themselves with expensive lawyers from the torys if they say something untoward
I have doubts that they were even voted in.
This makes me so angry. 100,000 poor people, reduced to living on the state, and the state just cuts that meagre life-line and they die ! The evil piece of work responsible for this, had good education, then married money, so he’s not even a self-made man. He led his Political Party until they realised what he was, and got rid of him. He has now been seen to be a liar, and a piece of nasty excrement ! He must be vomited out of our system A.S.A.P. There is only one Law for us all, and he must face it. …………. This once great country is now to be visited by Miss Aguilar from the U.N., to check if our Government has been fair to our sick and lame. – This would have been unthinkable just a few years ago, very much ‘Third World’, but I for one welcome this young Lady, and I hope all assistance is given to her.
it brought atear to my eye and why is fair that goverment policy kills
Well well who would have thought it eh from a Tory government and we are all in it together? I remember the last Tory government, no not the coalition, the one with Thatcher and her cronies, didn’t they massage the unemployment statistics and put people on incapacity benefit instead? The one thing that Tory’s are good at is manipulating data and figures, but, this is despicable even for them.
I hope Iain-Duncan Smith, that when next you attend your Regimental reunion and dinner, your ex-colleagues will greet you with the accolade you deserve. Ex Colonel, what a joke.
Ex-lieutenant.
The new tory party slogan should be “lies ‘r’ us”
I feel upset that so many more people claim incapacity benefit which in turn means more claimants die and makes the government look bad, what are they supposed to do?? Reduce the number of claimants?
That is exactly what the government is trying to do.
However, the government is not trying to stop people from becoming ill or disabled – attacking the causes that lead to people making claims.
Instead it is simply making it harder for people to claim successfully, meaning they are denied the benefits to which they have a right and into which they have paid with their taxes.
There does seem to be a symbiotic link between cutting disability benefit claimant numbers, and the Tories’ agenda to dismantle the NHS. With more ppl becoming seriously impaired as access to healthcare is reduced, IDS doesn’t want them all claiming DWP benefits.
Also ties in with the appearance of psychiatry in jobcentres… predictive of NHS mental health services continuing to dwindle under this government.
I propose a National Memorial to those who died. In addition to providing a focus point for family and friends, it may also act as point of shame for I Disgrace Society and the DWP and foster a ‘never again’ national mood.
Any other business or individual would have legal proceedings taken if they were responsible for this kind of manslaughter , unfortunately this government and I.D.S are above the law, I hope the minority of people who voted them in are happy, I think mandatory euthanasia will be next from I.D.S
Sadly, that would be too dignified, IDS would want us to suffer right till the very end, and cause as much suffering and pain as possible.
MIKE: This is an interesting line of action, and if you can find your way in this direction, then go to it. – No one should be above or beyond the Law, Government included. ….. Following this line of thought, and I may well be thinking out of the wrong end of my body on this, but since we are in a way, Citizens of an “elected” Government, we are all Subjects to the Crown. Now I am sure that H.R.H. would not want to get involved in any way publicly with this, but the Crown, in this Kingdom, has an old fashioned duty towards the Crown’s subjects. I am sure you see my point, but I’m unsure as to how this could work, since the Monarchy is now entirely Constitutional. ….. This is just a thought !
Any public intervention by the Monarch would cause a constitutional crisis.
It seems the royals only interfere behind the scenes, and in their own interests – although I stand ready to be corrected.
Very worrying. I wouldn’t say there should be no deaths at all in the WRAG but it shouldn’t be any higher than the number of deaths expected in a random selection of the working age population due to accidents and acute fatal illness. This could easily be analysed to see if it statistically significant.
It will be interesting to see whether this is given much coverage by the media or just glossed over using the DWP’s own words. Sadly, my guess is the latter.
This is an excellent point. To suggest the number should be zero shows a real lack of thought, I’m afraid.
I’ve seen no decent attempts anywhere (early days of course) to show what the figure *should* be. Is it 50? 100? 2000? 5000?
I’m assuming lower than 4000 because if that number was to be expected the government would be all over it. If they were competent statisticians that is…
In the work-related activity group, you cannot expect any deaths due to the claimant’s physical health condition, because membership of the group implies that their health will improve. Therefore perhaps the best that can be managed is a prediction based on the death rate among the general working-age population.
How do we now these figures are right has everything else from these devils has been lies hum has a figure it has surpassed that of the action t4 of the nazi party figures given can and will be manipulated by them has they duck and dive yet how many of us have lost love ones friends nowing firsthand how it affected them this abuse of power
jeff3
A modern-day Nazi Party manipulating the Press and our TV programme planners to further their disgusting abuse of the poor regime ! The Tories are continuing where the Coalition left off.
How many times have you seen programmes advertised on channel 4 and 5 about so-called benefits cheats or spongers ? They are as regular as day. You have ‘Undercover Benefits Cheat’, ‘The Great Big Benefits Wedding’, ’12-years-old and on Benefits’, ‘Britain’s Benefit Tenants’, ‘Benefits Street’, ‘Benefits Britain’ etc. They are all designed to make the benefits claimants look like spongers-of-the-state to anyone viewing those programmes. They want to make them feel guilty for being in a position where they need help.
The press too, – of course, they are always playing up on anything out of the usual to help sell their newspaper. But when they report on a claimant that has had something they shouldn’t have they exacerbate it and make even the smallest fiddle into such a huge deal that the readers are ready to go and stone the person to death. Sensationalism ! It is all designed to help turn the Countries population against the poor and vulnerable in society who need to rely on handouts. But actually, there is much more wickedness going on than that within the walls of Parliament by the very respected people who are leading those campaigns against Britain’s vulnerable. Many of our ministerial leaders and MP’s are using diverted funds saved by not paying out benefit to claimants who innocently find themselves put on ‘Sanctions’, and those refused ESA or JSA, to line their own greedy pockets. We have caught them with their hands in the public till reducing their own tax levy whilst increasing hard-working Briton’s tax, swindling thousands of pounds in expenses claims from the tax man, and putting up their own wages above inflation, etc, etc. But this is OK, nothing bad is said about them on TV or in the Press, they are immune from any punishment. Why no programmes on TV about ‘Minister Cheats’, ‘MP Swindlers’, Parliament Spongers’, etc ? Equality ? No ! Just real wicked people who would like to see the poor thrown into the ‘Workhouse’ like back in the dark ages of history, and we know what happened to most of them, don’t we !
Human Rights are being stamped on for the poor, disabled and vulnerable here in Britain in this, the 21st Century by our own Government, but it is alright as they have also manipulated the laws of the Country so they can continue for another 5 years at least.
“these isolated figures provide limited scope for analysis and nothing can be gained from this publication that would allow the reader to form any judgement as to the effects or impacts of the Work Capability Assessment”
Seems like they’re providing their own reasons why the stats should be released as requested? Please keep pushing, Mike! This hasty release smacks of deseration and duplicity – they cannot be allowed to use this limited release as an excuse to avoid the FoI request!
I should point out that this release answers my Freedom of Information request fully.
It’ll be interesting to see what happens to the DWP’s appeal now.
I have a few thoughts about the next steps that need to be taken and will probably write another article later on.
Well done Mike. Keep it up please, there are many whom will support you!
Hi Mike,
Forgive me for being dim-witted, but as the information you requested is now out in the open, what could the DWP possibly gain from their appeal?
Funny you should mention that…
This morning I receive an email from the DWP’s lawyer, stating that the Department is withdrawing its appeal.
I can only be completely candid with you Mike, I am stunned, to say the least with regards to the figures you are quoting, I find it abhorrent what the DWP are doing. I began reading earlier comments made by other individuals and although I believe that IDS should be facing a court, the question I have to ask is what court can you take him to? He disgusts me beyond comprehension but again I am at a loss as too what to do with him, in reality he has committed no crime. Hopefully he will fall off his perch eventually and live his life sad and wanton, my heart goes out to those that have needed help from society but have died needless and in poverty, keep up your work, I assure you II will be purchasing at least 1 of your books. Good luck in your fight.
Corporate manslaughter might be a useful place to start.
The DWP put out figures in 2012 showing the number of deaths among ESA claimants between January and November 2011 – an average of 32 per day. Now it has released figures showing the number of deaths among ESA claimants between December 2011 and February 2014 – an average of 62 per day – nearly double the previous average.
Ministers at the DWP would have been aware that the number of deaths was increasing but they did nothing about it. That may be considered to be gross negligence by the people controlling policy at the DWP, leading to the deaths of other people.
Congratulations, Mike! I wish to commend you for your tireless efforts in this matter.
Please see: My Disability Studies Blackboard: Requesting that the DWP hire an epidemiologist and consult with David Stuckler of Oxford University http://mydisabilitystudiesblackboard.blogspot.ca/2013/07/requesting-that-dwp-hire-epidemiologist.html. In my opinion, such a recommendation would be appropriate now.
Mike, I noticed something – perhaps you could check. The figures are for deaths of those whose WCA were completed BEFORE 2013, expressed as deaths up to 2014 (because they allowed for 365 days after WCA). So the figures are not the complete picture for 2014.
In the same vein, are we sure the WRAG group deaths – also based on the same delimiters of WCA 365 days before death – are the full number of WRAG deaths? I suspect not. One suspects that this is because it hides the deaths of those whose WCA was after either more than 365 days before death, or whose WCA was in 2014, when we all know there was a further ratcheting up of pressure, including those on IB who were migrated (I know personally how much strain that caused!).
Can a further FoI go in for total deaths in each group, irrespective of date of WCA? And also for the numbers of WRAG claims lasting more than 24 months (the supposed length of claim when designed) and the numbers transferring from WRAG to Support Group? These data are needed to get a much better picture of who is on which group & for how long.
You’re reading the part of the report referring to a different FoI request from mine. The requester had asked for the total number of people who had died within a year of their work capability assessment, so the DWP could only use those who’d had a WCA up to a year before the end of February 2014.
My own request makes no such restriction, so you already have the numbers you want.
horrendous,surely there must be some way the government can be brought to task over this
either in our or EU legislation.
there must be some clever bods on here who can get their heads around this ?
How about impeachment? According to http://www.government.uk, “Impeachment is when a peer or commoner is accused of ‘high crimes and misdemeanours, beyond the reach of the law or which no other authority in the state will prosecute.’ It is a procedure that is ‘directed in particular against Ministers of the Crown’. The first recorded impeachment was in 1376 and the last in 1806.
Further information on this subject can be found from the following link. http://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/SN02666
I am crying my eyes out for all those poor people, I cannot thank you enough Mike for your continued perseverance in all of this horrendous nightmare which just goes on and on and gets worse and worse. And now I’m going to check the post to see if my next round (& subsequent breakdown) for ESA is about to begin again.
I was very nearly one of these statistics. In 2007 during a routine medical procedure something went wrong and left me permanently disabled. I now have a severely deformed spine and my condition is one that continues to deteriorate over time. Eventually I will be in a wheelchair permanently. My health conditions are extremely complicated but needless to say I require huge amounts of medication to see me through my day. In 2013 a short illness saw me left in a medically induced coma. During this time they sanctioned my benefits because I am also the carer for my adopted children who also have learning disabilities but my son has severe disabilities. Obviously whilst I was in a coma my partner continued to care for our children and also spent every spare moment by my side whilst I was fighting for my life. The DWP sanctioned my DLA and my son’s carers allowance because they didn’t see how my partner could reasonably claim that we still needed the same amount of benefit. My son’s condition did not change because I was fighting for my life!! This left my partner with no choice but to take out loans to care for our family and when I cam out of hospital my care had exponentially increased as I had a long road to my “normal” state of health. Two years later and I am still not recovered. I have been left with severe depression and sleep deprivation as I have ptsd. I also suffered with muscular atrophy as a result of being bed ridden for so long. Still my fight for the correct level of benefits went on. In November of 2014 I tried to take my own life as I felt my family would be better off with one less mouth to feed.
This government and DWP has consistently let my family down, we live on food banks and handouts from friends and neighbours. I feel ashamed that 8yrs ago I was a nurse supporting my family and today I am a severely disabled woman fighting to feed my children. These figures sadly don’t surprise me, in fact I surprised they are not higher. IDS and Cameron should be charged with manslaughter, they have knowingly and intentionally caused the plight of their people.
What a horrendous story Marie. All I can do is send you a big cyber-hug.
Jane in Scotland XX
Sick people dying
It would never happen under Corbyns leadership
I agree
I also agree but who knows time will tell hey
Here, here.
Atos Unum DWP IDS, they should be on trial for this. would anyone work for a company with a shoddy safety record that had close to 100000 deaths, they would be closed down and the managers put on trial for manslaughter
And earlierthis week IDS said he has plans to get more people off ESA and into work,Isn’t he a godsend for improving our lives
Who gave Duncan-Smith the book on 1930s Germany ? – The Nazi Party ‘looked after’ the sick and lame by direct action, but it seems our Tory’s favour starvation, and a total loss of hope. – Thank goodness the first duty of Government is safety for the people !
Are you suggesting that our government is neglecting its first duty?
The last thing you can say about the Tories is that they are interested in safety for the people!
Don’t forget that the UNUM claims denial method was introduced into the DWP by Labour. Their faithful servant Prof. Sir Mansel Aylward was Chief Medical Advisor at the DWP at the time.
He has since been handsomely rewarded as Director of the Scool of BioPsychoSocial Science at Cardiff University funded by UNUM.
A Google search for is an eye-opener.
Yes, we’ve gone into this many times here.
Labour was responsible for bringing in ESA and the accompanying work capability assessment – but we must remember that the bloodbath started when Iain Duncan Smith took over at the DWP.
This is a total fudge. The FOI requests were for statistics on how many people had died within 6 weeks of being declared fit to work. All these statistics are telling us is how many people died whilst on disability benefits. They still havent answered the question.
Scroll down the article – the number of fit-for-work deaths is there also.
The FoI request was about the number of people who have died while claiming incapacity/sickness benefits. It was made in line with a previous request that was answered by the DWP, so that we would be provided with comparable figures.
The DWP has provided everything I asked for – as far as I can tell at this time.
The next issue is how this should be followed up.
In other words, the figures do not reflect the number of people on JSA who should never have been parked there in the first place.
“The next issue is how this should be followed up…” Excellent work Mike. I would have thought the TV media should have a hand in publicising this? Then again, I’d be astounded if the BBC chose to broadcast this news.
I would think the follow up should be a demand that IDS stand trial for the excess deaths caused by his policies – which seems to be around 55,000 up until Feb 2014 (but increasing at about a hundred a DAY.
With David Cameron alongside him for aiding and abetting.
This level of death from government abuse is obscene, and heads (of government) need to roll.
If the figures for up to Feb 2014 have continued at a flat rate (although it’s probably higher, since that rate was an average for a period which started at 32 per day) the total EXCESS deaths (i.e. above the Jan-Nov 2011 figures, which is the only baseline we have) must be well over 100,000 by now.
By almost every definition that I know of, that is classed as genocide.
Nearly 150,000.
We also need the figures broken down by month, so we can tell what the trend is, and continued for every month as soon as the numbers are available.
I would certainly agree that a monthly breakdown is desirable. I don’t think we’ll get it from the DWP as it currently operates.
Considering the evidence of that department’s behaviour, I would think that a report every six months would be more realistic.
Good work. I wonder if it’s a coincidence that the headlines today are about mass immigration figures. Just turned Sky News on and they haven’t mentioned this yet as far as I can see.
It is no coincidence at all. The DWP wanted this release hidden.
I,ll eat my boots if it gets on British television .
I wondered the same thing. This should be headline news. Goes to show governments are still choosing days to bury bad news.
Sure. My sarcasm obviously didn’t cross over well :)
I’m afraid not. The immigration story taking precedence is a sore point with me.
Look who owns sky of cause they won’t mention it the Tories have the media bought
Or is it Murdock has the Tories bought. Personally I suspect it’s more a marriage of convenience: both worship wealth and power and when they work together that is what they get.
Mike – I salute you sir ! Even though DWP statistics raises more questions, your good work has helped open the door !
Well done, Mike. They cut their losses and caved because they knew if they hadn’t disclosed, it would have drawn even more attention.
‘But such sad news. RIP.
We have to fight this evil callousness.
IDS is unfit for purpose he should be sacked and taken to court to answer for his callous disregard for the lives of those who have died and those who have lost relatives or friends because of his actions. Cameron has supported IDS all the way in this and should stand beside IDS in court
As a practicing white witch, I will happily do a bit of “spelling” to remove the monstrous Idiotic Dopey Sh*t, not only from his office, but from parliament too!
As such an action would be deemed as being “for the good of all”, the only repercussions would be on those who are unlawfully governing our country!
Any one interested in assisting, call me on 0800 334 5020
Plus, the MD of Atos, or whoever the latest numpties that have replaced them are, should also be charged with corporate murder, as it is he who must answer as to why their so called “healthcare professionals” are paid a bonus for every person they illegally claim is fit for work!
Shouldn’t this be re-titled dwd for department of work and death
Very tempting!
Only the police mike can put a stop to this hell. And still these figures don’t take into account those that commit suicide on the spur of the moment
where i live we have had 2 just this week one by hanging the other jumping from the top of a hoping mall with the police using the phrase (no suspicious circumstances )
what the hell does that mean mike ? no suspicious circumstances ) The police haven’t checked for any DWP involvement ?
We don’t know the causes of any of these deaths.
I was on the phone to a reporter from 5 Live this morning, and she raised this issue. I pointed out that anyone notifying the DWP of a death (and therefore the end of a claim) would logically explain why that person died – so I cannot understand why the DWP would not record those reasons.
Them claiming that they don’t have a record of these reasons might just be ‘for illustration purposes’.
Also they appear to have cherry-picked the data point for the mortality rate in 2003 which is suspicious.
It’s when the number of people claiming Incapacity Benefit (ESA didn’t exist then) was at its all-time high.
You have done extremely well and i thank you
my own dealing with the DWP over the years are as follows others may identify some of mt points
It reads like something out from the Nazis genocide in which Hitler had killed many Jews and sick and disabled
Now I am told there were Holocaust denials and it may well be that is in which IDS studied?
The figures would need a very superior brain for the public to understand on what these figures mean as a judge once said understanding anything from the DWP were a mind field
My own personal dealing with the DWP of many years would indeed bear that out and i have yet to understand what they say on any level as it to me has always sounded like complete garbage and lies
especially the thank you for your letters of change ? What change what letters? In addition, after 35 years i still get the letters
My conclusion is that they write to you to stress you so you kill yourself and in a nutshell of my 35 years in dealing with them and the police that’s about it as to just speak to them or your legal representative you will just go round in a never ending loop and for those that do get sucked in to the madness it invariably causes the death of many
My life and that of my family has been seriously blighted by the DWP over the past 35 years the past 6 years very much so and at 8 stone have the body to prove it but live in hope that criminal proceedings will at some point take place against the government so that I can attend to give my own personal account of the DWP
Great work, Mike! My most pressing question is : How many of these deaths were suicides?
I know of at least one which was known to be directly linked to being made to work when nothing like fit.
Is it possible to discover this figure?
Best Wishes,
Jane X
The DWP says it doesn’t have that information. However, I have a view on that and will be publishing an article later.
I’m Disgusted Mike IDS’S head should roll for this
Do the figures show the number of deaths whilst under sanction, and what the manner of those deaths were?
No – but you raise a very important point.
1 nearly died with cancer and had to wait the full 6 months to get my money. But needed it at a time when i was suffering ie could not afford heating, fresh food, or even do my laundry all of which could have killed me when i was neutropenic. £40 per week was what i recieved out of which i had to subsidize my rent and pay £5 per week poll tax!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! luckily i had friends but when i received my back pay i owed out more. sorry forgot about the overdraft aswell
keep up the fantastic work you are doing not easy to deal with any goverment department
Thank you, Mike.
I am in awe of your tireless campaigning on this – it’s thanks to you that we have these (very limited and deliberately confusing) figures.
DWP claims to have no data on why all these people died – personally, I suspect they have at least some. Otherwise, why would they be conducting “Peer Reviews following the death of a customer (sic) while on benefits”?
You deserve a medal.
Totally shocking, Mike, though probably pretty much what most of us suspected. I am hearing nothing of this on the BBC News channel, why am I not surprised? :(
Many congrats on your persistence Mike. Will IDS and the DWP ever comprehend that they can’t shut us up and we won’t go away?
Was there not a report that was also blocked from release that provided a review of proposed DWP reforms and likely consequences including mortality rates? I believe there are some outstanding FOI requests on this?
If that report exists we really need to add more pressure to have it disclosed. I don’t want to prejudice what it might say beyond that it may indicate ‘intent’ when contrasted to the actual policies adopted and the number of deaths amongst claiments.
I don’t know. If anybody reading this has information about such a report, please get in touch.
Mike thankyou and well done. I had to claim ESA back in may 2014 after breaking my leg by my hip socket and it took till january this year for my ESA to come thru yes it was back date but i was a prisoner in my own hope as i could not use public transport i only hope that i dont be made too wait again .
If I had an effective MP I would ask them to find out. I think asking an MP about this possible report is very much needed. I’ll dig up what I read about it but feel it is of such significance that a few others should be hunting it down too.
Found U. Warwick database – Reports on the Impact of Public Spending Cuts on Different Disadvantaged Groups within the UK. Two there by DWP.
A thought that someone at U Warwick may have some info as to the location of the exact audit report you are looking for; asking for info might prove helpful.
http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/law/research/centres/chrp/projects/spendingcuts/resources/database/reportsgroups/
Thank you so much for persevering with getting the facts revealed.
Isn’t it amazing that atos are still doing the assessment for the dwp even though we were told they had lost the contract. I have to go and be assessed by them next week so I am not holding out much hope of a fair and just outcome. Roger Round
Roger as you go in Take someone with you and ask for the so called Doctors GMC Number..then check on the NHS site the person in question as the relevant qualifications for your Illness..i was seen by a dermotoligist for mental health issues. :/ Luckily I’m in the work related activity group but I’m fighting the department for deciet and sanctions to be put in support from the start! GOOD LUCK Sir
i’ve had 3 and lost all 3 although won 2 on appeal because of cancer!! because of the appeals i found out i was seen by nurses who obviously knew more than my specialists!. yet the crooks atos are still at it.
We’ve had our disagreements, but credit where it’s due Mike. These figures are outrageous.
As we all know, whether prepared to admit it or not, there has been a concerted effort by the establishment and mainstream media for several years now to dehumanise and vilify those on any sort of benefit and soften up the ever gullible general public, and in so doing generate a pervasive attitude of indifference at best, for the sort of realities these numbers indicate.
It’s even evident in coverage of so called disability sport, where in most cases the people participating are able bodied injured as opposed to disabled and have sponsorship and income from a previous able bodied career as well as support and assistance. Essentially ramming it down the general public’s throat and reinforcing the theme that disability isn’t a barrier and there is no possible excuse for anyone to be claiming any benefits.
What the likes of the despicable hypocrite, scrounger and proven liar Mr. IDS seek, and make no mistake there are a great many like him, is a world in which you’re either fit to slave for and enrich the oligarchs running the western world or you can just go away and die.
Tough, your choice, even if the disability wasn’t.
I totally agree with your statement. I’ve made this point before, but one of my retired friends made a really shocking statement to me when we were out one day a couple of years back. I was speaking about all the suicides in our town (train lines and multi-storey car park suicides, such that the local paper did a front page article on the coroner’s concerns at the sharp increase in deaths), and he replied: ‘well, the unemployed will do anything to get out of working, even suicide’.
We obviously had a blazing row. I’m afraid my dear friend has somehow has his sense of morality bent and degraded, because he never used to speak like that, and I’m sure that it’s the mainstream media that has caused this. Many people still trust what the mainstream media has to say, that the articles and news programmes still have the integrity that older people experienced years ago (if there ever was anything of integrity there in the first place). I’m afraid we’re having many arguments now; I can’t let such statements go unchallenged.
I’m also hearing this more and more. I dread going to the post office nowadays as there’s always someone spouting off about the ‘feckless mass of the unemployed and sick’ who should be made to work. Even the post mistress has started commenting, saying that she’s sick of people coming to get their money and going to buy beer in the shop opposite, and then they’re drinking all day. A postmistress has no place commenting on that; it’s surely a breach of confidence.
I’m getting as I feel I can hardly leave the house for fear of someone making a disparaging comment (which I’ve experienced over and again). It’s getting to the point that it’s not only the government and the establishment that hound people to death, but it’s the general public too. It’s sickening when you think of how many deaths must have been caused by just that.
We can only do what we can to counter this vile propaganda. I banned my in-laws after 4 days of non-stop diatribes about the “disabled”, including “all a bunch of frauds” and “need a good kicking, the lot of them”. I have become disabled through illness in the last 15 years, and I was so disgusted that despite asking them to change the subject, they carried on regardless. I haven’t let them through the door in 5 years, now.
Sorry that you’ve had to go through this Florence; must have been awful for you.
I could say a lot more about this – about people you thought were your friends who don’t believe that you’re even ill – but you don’t know whose out there do you? Let me just say, that I’ve fallen due to myoclonic jerks in my legs, had bowel spasms, and an angina attack, limped and cried out, right in front of some people, and they didn’t blink an eyelid/ask me if I was OK or if they could do anything for me.
Year on year I see less compassion and more aggression towards the disabled, whether it’s from family/friends/strangers/acquaintances or from the DWP/Social Services. Consequently, I would love to just move across the country or even move country if I could, but not being well off makes that an impossibility.
I truly understand why people want to commit suicide; every time I hear of another one I think ‘there but for the grace of God go I’. Most of us are hanging on by a mere thread, not facing physical death on a daily basis, but a psychological battle too, because it seems like you’re surrounded by people who actually would rather you’d not be here, then you don’t have to encroach on their happy little lives. Out of sight out of mind.
I have tried to share on twitter, facebook, G+ and linked in. None of the links would work, each with a different excuse. You may be being blocked or there is too much traffic to your page?
Possibly there is too much traffic at the moment. I’m having trouble approving comments, so something’s going on.
Shocking figures Mike but I had thought they might have been higher. I hope that cretin IDS is made to cringe in public on this but I’m not holding my breath. He’ll spin something ludicrous as usual, I expect. Thanks for all your hard work on this over the years.
Bear in mind that the new figures only extend to February last year – nearly 18 MONTHS ago.
There is no doubt in my mind whatsoever that the total number of deaths has exceeded 100,000 – going on the daily average between December 2011 and February 2014 we can add a notional 54,252 to the dead.
That would make a total of very nearly 146,000.
Mike, I take it these figures do not include those on the now defunct DLA and the “replacement” benefit PIP. If those figures are available I am certain this would be well over the 100,000 by Feb 2014
You are quite correct. These figures only include IB, SDA and ESA.
Surely if Ian Duncan Smith gloatingly with Fists Banging in the air, at The Governments decision to cut further the benefits of those most vulnerable our society which then results in their deaths. He is then because of his complicity in their deaths is guilty of Corporate and deliberate Homicide and should be arrested. Maybe even guilty of Human rights atrocities under EU Law. No wonder Tory govt specifically wanted the EU Human rights laws repealed for UK. Theresa May and Philip Hammond (already guilty of War crimes) for giving Netanyahu go ahead to to slaughter 1,000’s of innocent women and children in Gaza as deliberate Genocide) should join him in Prison they have not one ounce of decency or Human conscience amongst them. Yet they apparently stand as elected guardians of our “civilised social culture” Ian Duncan Smiths Narcissistic Punching the air shows exactly what that disgusting excuse for a human being stands for.
1 Corinthians 9:26,27
I keep saying that the families who suffered the loss should take out a class action against the government – specifically IDS and other ministers involved – for corporate manslaughter (or whatever other kind of manslaughter charge; should be murder). I honestly think it’s the only way to stop all of this, because protesters and even government committees have hardly made a dent into the damaging policies. I’ve seen government responses to every point made, and they just deny it, or talk around it.
Something has to be done. You know that they say that you’ll no doubt always know someone whose had cancer? Well it’s getting to the point that nearly all of us know someone who has died due to the pressure from the DWP. My mum’s gardener killed himself earlier this year after losing carer’s allowance for his sister who had to go into a home. He could manage through the winter without working, but of course he would have had to sign on when his sister left, and we know what happens then.
I was, starved and an attempt was made to work me to death Nazi style. I complained that my human rights have been violated after being forced to work 24 hours per day by the job centre because I was given 6 months to completely renovate a dilapidated house even though im seriously disabled. They then prevented me from doing so by my being inundated with paperwork from them. Up to 2 kilos In one letter. They put me between a rock and a hard place telling me that on one hand I could buy my house if I renovate it in 6 Months. Or they may apply a rule that says I can’t live in it at all. they refused to tell me which rules they would apply only that they would tell me after I had tried to complete the project in 6 months. they ignored the independent case assessor and a tribunal judge. they told me that they could not be prosecuted for violation of human rights as all their policies have been checked. they refuse to escalate my Complaints and even when they were criticised by The Independent case Examiner I Only received a pay out of £100 as a tangible apology as they do not compensate for actual losses
And just when you thought that they couldn’t get any lower. I’m disgusted that you had to experience this! I hope that you’ve recovered somewhat since, but these things never really heal; they leave a stain on the soul somehow.
Totally agree
I have never seen a more despicable politician than IDS punching the air in triumph and shouting “Fantastic” when the Chancellor announced his future attacks on benefit claimants during his budget speech. IDS received the news with glee and great satisfaction as well as triumph.
WE should pursue IDS with the same determination that he does his victims and highlight, publicly, his lies, perversion of statistics, creation of false characters telling outrageous lies and his personal hatred of those who through no fault of their own need benefits.. And all the time he lives in one of his father-in law’s houses, so he will never need housing benefit
Conservative, Catholic, Corrupter of statistics he may be..
CARING ? Never, nobody with the tiniest vestige of humanity will ever say that of the man
Michael Montague:
I completely agree with your comment and have the same logic myself. It’s not just IDS that needs arresting and charging with Human Rights atrocities, the whole cabinet needs removing as they are all complicit with these crimes. Under David Cameron’s leadership he is responsible for the lot of this shabby outfit. It began with the Coalition so others are involved also.
I just want to give a shortened account for my thinking this way;
I too have had reason to claim sickness benefits and be tortured during an Atos interrogation, or ‘Work Related Interview’ as they call it. My interviewee Health Official was a Nurse who left me in pain after manually forcing my legs up and leaving me to go home sock-less as I was told to remove them for the examination and I couldn’t get them back on again afterwards. She didn’t help. She raised the examination bed to it’s highest position as I was trying to get on it, I nearly slipped and fell. I thought why is she trying to cause me pain and an accident. She wasn’t nice at all and said if I refused to get up it would be classed as ‘I would not participate fully’ and would go against me in her report. I asked her to lower it for me. She lied in her report and didn’t bother to look at my list of medication or the tablets I brought with me properly. She took no notice of any Doctors and Specialists medical proof I took with me of my illnesses and degenerating diseases which any Doctor would have realised straight away I was unfit to work. She saw to it that I got no points at all out of the 15 necessary and even recommended to the DWP Decision Maker that I returned immediately to work ! Some interview I thought !
When I got the decision letter I fell to the floor in disbelief. I immediately appealed and asked for all the paperwork from the nurse to the DWP. When it arrived full of her lies I could understand why they thought I was fit. I waited 11 months for the appeal tribunal to be heard. I was told by the Doctor and Official that the DWP was wrong in their decision and I should have passed on 3 different grounds. My appeal was successful. The past 11 months of stress all caused by the Atos nurse who thought she was better than my neurosurgical professor, specialists and doctors nearly killed me. I often thought should I end it but then thought of my family. I was in two minds and totally out of my mind with worry. It’s never going to be over though because all the time you are claiming you risk the chance of having to go all through this again, over and over. They can call you back at any time !
Oh, I nearly forgot; I got pushed out of the way by the Home Secretary – Theresa May’s – bodyguard after an invite to Canterbury Cathedral for the Archbishop’s enthronement. I was walking too slow along a narrow path with my sticks in front of her on the way out so the bodyguard manhandled me out of the way. I was shocked and had to ask bystanders “who was so important” !!! They all are despised by me now for their utter contempt of anyone below their level.
This shows how morally bankrupt the tories are!
A government which is making the poorest of the poor – those who are disabled as well as being poor – pay for the recession with their lives is despicable and not fit to govern in our name.
They have sold the lie that the Labour Party was responsible for the Global recession
caused by the US and the flawed Banking system. Now they are trying to sell another the lie that benefits are bad.
I for one do wish my taxes to go to helping the disabled and do not wish to live in a country where a paltry amount of money saved is more important than people’s lives!
These figure’s are alarmingly worrying!
No matter how the government presents the figures, deaths for benefit claimants, the most vulnerable and needy in society cannot be excused.
Anyone of us at some point in our lives may need this financial assistance due to various changes in circustances. And we need to be confident that it is able to support us at the point of need.
The welfare funds is to help and protect people in times of hardship not harrass and punish them.
Please be aware that it is virtually impossible to read this extremely important information on my phone. This is because as soon as I touch the screen it takes me to an Amazon advert for political books. Whilst I can understand the need for advertisement to raise funding, it would seem that Amazons lack of morals, are concerned more with their own profits, than this immoral situation.
This seems to happen to mobile readers every so often. I don’t understand why but it would be something to do with WordPress, rather than Amazon or any of the other adverts. I will query this with the support team.
I don’t think you will be able to identify the reason why 2,650 ESA/IB claimants found “fit for work” died, the DWP has to keep the reasons secret, the same applies for those who died after a completed WCA appeal but still found “fit for work”. It may seem a lot but it is eugenics on a small scale compared to that of Hitler and his murder of disabled and mentally challenged. Add the 3,320 “unknown” who were probably on sanction and you still have under 7.5,000. If I lose my ESA at my next assessment – which seems likely because 7 out of 8 is the preferred target for the DWP, I will be “fit for work” right up to the point where I request JSA and likely told I am not “fit for work”. I will be off the system for several years (unless I have another heart attack or burst aneurism in my legs) and my death will be unrelated to the WCA even if it is the stress that kills me, rather than my health conditions. There will likely be even more deaths that are not on the list if they are living off a personal pension but failed to receive ESA or JSA since I doubt that Housing benefit will count. I could scrape by on my tiny works pension for 3 years and die during that time and I would not be on any DWP list of deaths. There are likely many who have died without ever being on JSA after being found “fit for work” by WCA. How many cancer sufferers didn’t live long enough to receive a WCA? How many JSA claimants having been found “fit for work” denied ESA for those years died as “fit for work”. They would simply have stopped claiming JSA and would not be on the DWP list unless they specifically listed JSA claimants who died after being denied ESA, which they are hardly likely to even if they knew. The DWP kind of “ableism” is too subtle to be proven with fudged figures and they know it.
Hitler deliberately killed around 70,000 mentally ill people in Germany before moving on to genocide of entire races.
Here, we know of more than 90,000 deaths (although many may have been a natural part of the claimants’ illnesses) and can predict that a further 60,000 (or thereabouts) will have taken place in the 18 months between the end of the statistics we’ve been given and the end of this month.
That’s twice as many as Hitler managed.
Your comments about deaths of people off-benefit are pertinent and extremely disturbing.
I’m on PIP,I have a. bulging disc between l4 and l5 which is putting pressure on my spinal fluid line which in turn is putting pressure on my spinal chord,I’m in constant pain,on ccocktail of drugs,and the orthopaedic surgeon has refused me surgery,so iv asked for a second opinion,5 of October to c a nureo surgeon,I’m struggling to walk,and wash and dress,but I’m only on low rate of PIP,I feel like iv bn treated like a lepper!,I also have enlarged prostate gland,so I’m on 2 pills for the rest of my days for that,and my back condition is degenerative,and iv bn told iv probably got nerve damage to spinal chord,I also suffer from depression,physios can’t do anything more for me,so it’s about quality of life!!.
And of course, we’re fit for work you know, we can surely fit a few hours in between feeling like death!
Sorry that you’re in a state; I hope that things change for you and improve, though it seems terrible at the moment for you.
I’d suggest getting a social services assessment for care, but with the proviso, that firstly, it’s now another ‘fit for work test’ (or so my advocate tells me). It’s not done by a trained assessor, like the social workers used to be, but people who barely have a GCSE to their name (my assessor phoned 3 TIMES yesterday because she didn’t write a phone number down properly). When you have your financial assessment to see how much you contribute, they keep changing the goal posts in order to maximize what you will pay. They’ve really got you, because they know that a favourable care assessment has an impact on your ESA assessment, but all that happens is you receive the higher ESA only to hand it back to your local authority, and for the private care arrangements now that the LAs have cut what they will help you with.
Oh and by the way, I saw the contracts on the DWP site concerning care, that have been tendered out to companies (tendering ended in May of this year), for ‘volunteers’ to work in health and social care. Likely, they’ll be from the work programme. They’ll be asking me to volunteer to carry out my own care next week no doubt!
Yes the state all in all is so caring. I can’t wait for their next announcements; I feel sure the contracts they sent out for the residential placements will have something to do with it.
I’ve been thru the degenerative disc saga, total mess but it does improve. Trouble is, the NHS doesn’t run at the speed DWP think they do. I’ve had 2 lumber spine operations and one Cervical spine, those took 5 years to complete. Now I have a degenerating shoulder joint with a tear, unexpected and very painful! Evidence for all of it but I’m rarely believed.
So Mr Duncan-Smith what excuse are you going to come up with to explain these figures. You took over your position in 2010. This means that you are largely to blame for these high rates of mortality. I can only liken your programme of benefit cuts for the sick and disabled to the Nazi parties Action T4 programme which sought to impose forced euthanasia on the ‘incurably sick’. This fits in well with your recent statement “Work Is Good For Your Health”. Very similar to the words “Arbeit Macht Frei” written at the entrance to the Nazi concentration camps and meaning “Work Sets You Free”. I met you many years ago and thought you were a very arrogant, ignorant man. My feelings towards you have now plummeted even lower.
When did you meet up and what did he do at the time?
Very well said and he truly is the lowest form of life. Also he is worse then Hitler.
Thanks for your prompt assessment and for making it understandable. We have been waiting a long time. Your hard work in getting these figures is impressive and much appreciated. Well done
These figures back up what we already were sure of, so what action now ?
Please some put a Stop to this!!!
We need to know what the cause of death is, then we can make a judgment.
This is a national disgrace and all due to the policies of IDS and ATOS/DWP. Someone should be prosecuted.
Overwhelming statistics.Disgusting !. These poor people.So what happens next ?. Probably nothing, but Ian Duncan Smith if he has any self worth and decency left he SHOULD resign.
These figures are a complete disgrace to what is supposed to be a caring Britain. It seems we have a government which is far too hard-line on the poorer people of our nation while handing out more to the wealthy. Now, to further attack the sick and incapacitated people who have enough to put up with coping with their incapacities is nothing short of monstrous. If the present government policies were truly working why are we, the general public, not seeing any benefits instead of the clobberings we keep getting while the more fortunate wealthy get more handouts, boosting their luxurious lifestyle? When will Iain Duncan Smith prove that he can truly live on £50 a week? Yet he expects these poor people to live with NO income.
“Causal effect”. = “Nothing to do with our assessment of work capability, guv!”
Possibly true, but the DWP are desperately trying to evade the issue.
Although many doubtless have died or taken their own life */ as a direct result /* of being told they were ‘fit for work’ and thus lose their entitlements (and eg, thus starve to death), dying within six weeks of being passed as ‘fit’ is not a good reflection on the assessment , to say the least.
So only death by lightning, being run over or murdered can be acceptable as justification for saying somebody was fit for work and subsequently had an accident.
Every other single death is blood on Dunked-in ****’s putrescent fascist fingers.
One way to follow this up is to insist that these figures go on being published so that there is year on year, or more frequently if possible, comparison. If as claimed there is nothing to be gained from the figures (or did I not hear that they were likely misunderstood), then clearly that wasn’t true and we do have something to learn. What that might be is exactly what is necessary.
I agree completely. The figures must be published regularly from now on. I would recommend publication every six months.
Mike, Can we take it you or someone else will be making renewed FOI requests for the continuing figures post those now published?
Possibly. I’ll be pushing for an announcement that the DWP will update the figures regularly before I do that, though.
My daughter, a single mother, has numerous type 1 diabetes related health problems. She has limited vision, has had several eye operations and more to come,, painful hands, stress, depression, low energy due to ME, and more. She supplied all her medical evidence, letters from her GP and the hospital, to confirm that she cannot work. Yet she had her ESA benefit (what a misleading term anyway) stopped months ago, and was assessed by someone as fit to work. The report by this dubious’expert’, whose opinion we are told overrides any of the relevant medical evidence by those treating her, contained several lies, including that she drove to the interview!! She has never had a licence, cannot drive, wouldn’t be allowed to if she had a car, and I wonder how anyone thinks she could afford one since she has had no support for all this time. She and her son have to live with me and are supported by me, and I am a pensioner. Without that support she would not be alive today, and this has all caused a serious worsening of her already fragile health. (And it’s naturally had a huge effect on mine too)I can only assume that these deaths are a deliberate part of this government’s calculations. Therefore sadly I see no hope of any improvement.
Mike u are a star glad some people still have a back bone ..
Absolutely disgusting that in this day and age, the government, politicians (Ian Duncan-Smith in particular) and the DWP can let this happen. Should be ashamed of themselves. SOMETHING HAS GOT TO CHANGE. I have previously been on benefits and it’s the most demoralising feeling.
The Noose is getting tighter around failed Compulsive LIAR George Iain Duncan Smiths neck..boy i can not wait till the Karma train catches up with IT..(not him) No one is above the law not even Gentleman ranker!! aka sponger extraordinaire
Am I missing something or are ALL deaths in the reports related to people STILL receiving ESA etc at date of death. If people are in the “assessment phase”, then ATOS hasn’t seen them. Those in the support group will include the terminally ill. How can the DWP or ATOS be to blame? They would died regardless of what system was in place. Where are the figures for those claiming JSA at date of death but were claiming ESA 3 months earlier? They are the only sort of figures that could reasonably be used for these purposes.
Does anybody else want to explain where this commenter is going wrong?
Explain away “Total number of individuals who flowed off ESA whose date of death was at the same time”. Flowed off ESA means they were receiving ESA at the time. One of the reasons for “flowing off” ESA will be the death itself. The “same time” refers to within a 2 week “scan” period. These are deaths taking place BEFORE any “fit for work” decision has taken effect or perhaps even MADE. They could die on day 1 of the “scan” period and the “fit for work” decision made on day 2 because they have yet to be notified of the death. The decision could be made on day 2, letter issued arriving on day 5, but the claimant died on day 2 or 3 or 4, ie BEFORE they even knew about it.
Are you referring to those found fit for work? If they died at any point during that period, then they weren’t fit for work. Simple.
People in the work-related activity group were all, by definition, expected to be well enough to return to work within a year. I find it hard to believe that all 8,500 of those in this group who died were hit by a bus.
As you’ll know from reading the article, the deaths of those in the other groups are more problematic.
So what’s your point, again?
tell him to stop working for atos or dwp………or the tory trash
Dear am I missing something, it is very simple. There has been a 200% increase in the number deaths under this system. Now you could, fallaciously, argue that it is just coincidence, or you could look for another reason. To argue “they would have died anyway is to ignore the otherwise astronomical increase in numbers. In any other circumstances where such an increase occurred there would be a huge outcry. Let’s say a hospital showed a 200% increase on its death rate, would we accept “they would have died anyway” as a justifiable statement. I don’t think even you would accept that answer.
The treatment of the physically disabled & mentally incapacitated by this conservative government & Iain Dunccan Smith in particular has some horrific parallels with the attitude of the WWII Nazi attitudes towards the sick, disabled & mentally unwell. I swear that evil man would introduce work camps, showers & Zyklon B for the disabled.
Are there any statistics for those of us who SURVIVED attempted suicide due to being pushed over the edge by DWP? surely there must be something statistically speaking of the amount of people now being referred to mental health due to the trauma we are suffering on top of existing mental health, sickness and disability ? I am sure if you add these to the equation, you will get a far clearer picture as to the damage DWP are causing those most vulnerable.
Now is the time to bring them to book This is absolutely shameful and I am shaking with anger over this. To treat their own people in such a way that they end up killing themselves, is something that I thought I would never see within the UK.
They do not deserve to hold office. They do not deserve to represent me and mine. And they all should stand trial for they all have blood on their heads – mainly Cameron, Duncan Smith, Mcvey and Osborne.
This is more akin to a dictatorship with its pogrom of the poor, the sick, the unemployed and the disabled. Well done, Mike for going above and beyond. However, I do feel that the death toll of the innocents has now crashed through the 100.000, barrier.
I read somewhere that by the DWP’s own figures, only about 4% of benefit claims are fraudulent. How does this compare to the percentage of deaths amongst claimants? I’m willing to bet the death-ratio is a helluva lot higher.
Only 0.7 per cent of incapacity benefits claims are fraudulent, according to those figures.
So now we need to highlight the decision makers involved in this and take legal action. Not civil but criminal. The last time I checked Murder is still criminal right? If you cut of the means of vulnerable people to survive in a world that has become so fast and so boggling to be a part of what else was ever going to happen?
Trimming the fat of society, survival of the fittest. The Irony is that im sure 100% of the people in this demograph never stole millions of pounds in the banking sector. None of them bought about debt crises or economic problems like the pillars of society that are bankers, politicians & corporations. In fact in all likely hood they were of the demograph that consumed very little, (after all benefits arnt exactly richess are they?) hurt no one, interfered with no one, lived within their means and tried to lead quiet and happy lives to the best of their abilities.
What did a societal elected government do for them? hahahaha well we killed them obviously! Thats what they deserved right?!?!?!?! We did the aboriginies and the Indians the same way….thats progress my boy! Crush the weak, feed the strong = MORE! ALWAYS MORE!!!!!
I feel names should be published, after all each and every one of the 91,740 is a human life, not a statistic. I don’t even know if my cousin is part of those numbers. She died from serious medical conditions shortly after being passed fit, not before huge amounts of stress and despair were given to her during her last few weeks of life by the DWP. She did not live to see her appeal. RIP Helen, beautiful lady.
Thank you for all you have done Maggie & Mike. Please can we now have a petition calling on Duncan Smith to resign.
Statistics don’t show the fraudsters that still manage to claim benefit. Fraudsters will always push to claim the benefit, and most of the time receive it. They know how to work the system.
Actual vulnerable and legitimately disabled people can’t help themselves, they don’t push for claims because they are vulnerable and scared or weak etc…
3rd party companies need to be rid of. A proper in-house government medical system needs to be started. People with proper training need to be assessing who actually needs what if they need anything at all.
I believe house checks and the such should be made on claimants to assess whether they are actually disabled and vulnerable or just some druggie or lazy person. If you are who you say you are you have nothing to hide.
Besides, a house check and proper investigations may be a little invasive but is nothing in comparison to REAL PEOPLE DYING!
Privacy in this area should be overlooked when it comes to human life.
I know people that are committing benefit fraud, doesn’t matter how much i report it or anyone else does, NOTHING ever gets done (It’s been going on for over 10 years). All the while real people that need the help don’t get it, and as a consequence of greed from fraudsters. The vulnerable and disabled are becoming seriously ill and even dying.
ESA fraud currently stands at 0.7 per cent of claims. It’s not really much of an issue.
I agree with you that vulnerable people aren’t able to stand up for themselves very well.
We used to have a proper in-house government medical system, you know. It was called the National Health Service. But the government ditched information from qualified doctors in favour of a silly computerised tick-box game, played by unqualified functionaries.
Your house check idea is appalling. The last thing needed by the sick and vulnerable is more stress from the authorities.
The only problem i see though, is that stat about fraudsters being 0.7 per cent. How can anyone even know that? I know this figure has to be wrong by a fair margin. Especially with what i have seen through life.
Fraudsters are getting away with it, so when it comes to the stats, that figure is much lower than what is real.
I agree the house check idea, is not a good idea at all. In respect to actual disabled and vulnerable people with the stress it could cause.
How can someone determine who is lying and who is truly in need of help though?
I do remember the in-house medical system we had before. I also know the checkbox form thing too. Which by the way, the people i know who were committing fraud, had a cheat sheet of sorts. Basically they knew what boxes to tick and what to say, to be on whatever band of disability. It’s a terrible idea, cheaters at school never taught anyone anything apparently.
Again, the house check idea is terrible i know. However you merely need step into a fraudsters house compared to someone actually disabled to get a good gauge on who and what they really are.
The fraud figure has remained steady for years.
You’re not alone in disputing it – many have. If you can prove more people are committing fraud than 0.7 per cent then I’ll be willing to pay attention. Trouble is, anecdotal evidence won’t prove anything.
If only some thing good would come from this but I fear it won’t.
A bit of a stretch to claim no connection. It can be said with absolute certainty that 100% of dead people are totally incapable of work. It is unlikely that people will be well enough for work a short time before their deaths.
Some people will of course be fully fit and at work up to the point they die but that subset will not be claiming incapacity benefit.
Well done Mike, but I’m sure you are more than aware that this is just the end of the beginning.
As a few other commenters have noted, the DWP (and government) are not going to go quietly.
I hope you and other supporters can keep going and get the oblivious public to sit up and take notice.
It puts our so-called ‘Great’ country into shame…Wasn’t it Mahatma Ghandi who said:
“A nation’s greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members.”
The Government seem to think anyone claiming disability benefits is just telling lies and exaggerating their illnesses and disabilities, yet politicians often claim false expenses. They need to investigate their own cheats before assuming everyone else is a cheat.
IT,S LIKE THATCHER AND HER HEARTLESS GOVERNMENT ALL OVER AGAIN.
THE HOMELESS WERE “SOMEONE YOU STEPPED OVER ON THE WAY TO THE THEATRE”
ELDERLY PEOPLE WERE TOLD TO WEAR HATS GLOVES AND SCARVES, AND HAVE HOT DRINKS” WHEN THEY COULDN’T AFFORD TO HEAT THEIR HOMES.
4 MILLION UNEMPLOYED PEOPLE WERE “MOANING MINNIES”.
CAMERON WAS INFLUENTIAL IN POLICY MAKING IN THATCHERS GOVERNMENT.
WE HAVE A MAJORITY CONSERVATIVE GOVERNMENT, WITH A 33% VOTE.
IT DOES NOT SURPRISE ME THAT THESE DEATHS HAVE OCCURED.
TORY GOVERMENTS LOOK AFTER THEIR OWN, THAT IS WHY THE GAP BETWEEN RICH AND POOR HAS NEVER BEEN WIDER.
AND HUGE COMPANIES STILL DO NOT PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE OF TAX.
IAN DUNCAN SMITH IS ANOTHER PRIVILIGED TORY LIVING RENT AND MORTGAGE
FREE IN HIS DADDY’S HOUSE.
THESE DEATHS ARE A RESULT OF D.W.P. POLICY, HEADED BY IAN DUNCAN SMITH.
IAN DUNCAN SMITH SHOULD BE CHARGED WITH CORPORATE MANSLAUGHTER.
WE SHOULD DEMAND HIS ARREST,
THE MORE PEOPLE THAT GET INVOLVED THE BETTER.
KEEP THE PRESSURE ON UNTIL HE IS BOUGHT TO BOOK!!
well done Mike , they can play footsie all they like now .. the figures are out!
We Should all phone and or Email the Bbc and Sky news as to why they have not even mentioned this Shocking news
Wasn’t it just a few weeks ago that IDS stood up in Parliament and quite clearly stated that his department did not collate these figures?!
Yet here they are. IDS once again caught lying to Parliament. Would someone on the opposition benches challenge him on this. I am sick and tired of his deciet and lies!
He should be sacked. Then he should be charged.
sacked / charged ,nooooooooo no no my friend ,, gassed yes .
Mike, you (together with Maggie and all the good folk at Change.org) have achieved a great success with this campaign. We now need to be able to get some serious statistical analysis on this (i.e. comparisons with non-claimant death rates, and so on) to give us a clearer idea of the true nature of these horrendous figures. IDS is a truly corrupt and vile personality and needs (at the very least) to hang his head in shame at presiding over such a disgusting, cowardly and despicable way of treating the most vulnerable in our society. I still give thanks every day that claimants are not being rounded up and sent off to camps so that the Housing Crisis can be resolved more speedily.
The government reckons people on incapacity benefits are three times more likely to die than the wider population but this is based on the new age-standardised mortality rates and I wouldn’t trust them at all.
That, in itself, is truly outrageous. I’m due to come off my two-year Tribunal ruling shortly and already Im feeling stressed about the fight that lies in wait for me.
iain Duncan smith is following a similar ideology to a certain wartime Nazi leader do not become ill or lose your job if so you are going to suffer.
If this was 1945 ids and the Tory party would be facing crimes against humanity it’s wrong they should be allowed to walk free on this earth with what their actions has done is genocide is what they have caused
They Slaughter Human been in Iraq, Afghanistan and in their own country using Law, this is what you call democracy
Hm, I disagree with your dislike of ASMR, it seems like a good system to me, BUT as far as I can see they do not actually give that stat for the “off-flow”. Page 6 gives it for those ON incapacity benefits (1,032 deaths per 100,000 people), page 9 gives it for JSA claimants (138 deaths per 100,000 people).
The only place which possibly shows the ASMR for “off-flows” is page 3 here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/456240/mortality-statistics-out-of-work-benefit-claimants-summary.pdf
This (if Im reading it correctly), indicates a 1,570 deaths per 100,000 people for the “off-flows” from the support group. Literally 10 times that of JSA claimants. Work related group and assessment phase are 532 and 505 respectively, over three times JSA claimants.
THAT is the key statistic.
I haven’t looked at the ASMR release at all yet.
The figures in this article are the actual number of people who have died. The average number of those deaths has tripled between the time the last set of figures was released and now. Your ASMR stats say the number of deaths has fallen.
I’ll believe the actual numbers.
The statistics do need to be looked at on a per-100k people level and compared, because otherwise it doesnt reflect the population level or doesn’t indicate what a normal rate of death is. Crude example would be if it was a population of 1000 vs population of 1m. 100 deaths is huge in the former, not so much in the latter. Also, some people will die from car accidents, undiagnosed issues etc, so raw figures need to be compared against other not-working population.
I am not looking at changes per year etc (I probably should, but its hard to judge), and I completely agree that the way the information is presented makes it look pretty fudged and trying to make out a favorable view when there is absolutely none to be found.
I’m purely looking at those declared fit for work vs average JSA claimant. If I read correctly (which I may not be, I’m not a statistician) its saying those found fit for work (“off-flows”, horrible phrase) are 10 times more likely to have died than those on JSA. Which is obviously awful and shows a massive failure to help the most vulnerable people as well as many, many people being declared fit for work when they are not.
It won’t indicate a normal rate of death in any case, because the figure will include people who died after being classified ‘fit for work’, people who died while in the work-related activity group, and those who died in the support group due to the effect on their illnesses of outside pressures.
We already know the number of people on incapacity benefits is between two and three million people, and we know that some of them are likely to die rather than get better. What we want to know is how many of them are dying before their time, or dying when they should have got better. You’re not going to get that from these figures.
Even the statistics that I requested, showing the actual number of deaths, are only crude indicators in this respect. If you’re classified ‘fit for work’, there’s no reason for you to die; if you’re in the work-related activity group, you should be getting better, not dying, but in both cases, you could still be hit by a bus. But if you were to present the numbers we have to any right-thinking person, I think they would express disbelief at the suggestion that 10,150 people were all hit by buses between December 2011 and February 2014 inclusive.
Those figures – the figures I requested – indicate that there is a prima facie case for investigating the activities of the DWP. The ASMRs can’t.
Just to add: I also haven’t been looking closely at the death rate for those who have remained on ESA – it *looks* like the support group is way above average (which would be…somewhat expected, though perhaps not to 6x the extent), and the assessment and work-related groups are also twice above that of the general population, which obviously would indicate failings within the system itself, even ignoring assessments.
“This (if Im reading it correctly), indicates a 1,570 deaths per 100,000 people for the “off-flows” from the support group. Literally 10 times that of JSA claimants. Work related group and assessment phase are 532 and 505 respectively, over three times JSA claimants.
THAT is the key statistic”
Mike, m can speak for him/her-self but I think he/she is in favour of your argument and reinforcing it. I understand, however, the want to stay with the ‘numbers’.
The truth is out at last! There is no hiding-place now for politicians who seek to hide the truth about the real statistics. Slowly but surely, public outrage at the treatment of the most vulnerable people in our society is gathering momentum.
The analysis that I want to see is the difference in the mortality rate between those on benefits who have been sanctioned and others.
A big thank you Mike for all your efforts to get these dreadful figures made public.
What sort of government allows this to continue whilst increasing its own financial returns (I will not say rewards)? Either David Cameron will remove IDS from his post and get a proper professional (preferably medically qualified) to take over without delay or we should really seek to have the matter taken to the Court of Human Rights before the government tries to block this recourse.
Thank you again for your perseverance and enormous benefit to all of us.
Thank you for persisting. It is shameful in itself that such persistence is necessary, heartening that it exists.
Well done indeed!
Now let’s see whether the UK press (owned 90% by tax evading media and porn barons) consider the deaths of 100,000 British people (working age mothers and fathers) is worth reporting at all or whether the Tory press magnates will censor it yet again…And the BBC scared of being ripped up and all sacked won’t do anything either as they’re more scared of losing their jobs more than speaking up for the 100,000 deceased victims
I bet you there’ll suddenly be more ‘diversionary tactics’ and be another DWP story about some benefits cheat stealing a few hundred quid, while of course the tax evading porn barons who own the TV stations steal billions each year…
Isn’t it also so contradictory and strangely ‘funny’ how the Tories have ignored chasing 6999 of the 7000 tax evaders discovered with large amounts of undeclared money hidden in Swiss bank accounts. Yet if someone on benefits forgets to mention something all hell breaks loose, they immediately get sanctioned and half a dozen investigators are round there banging on the doors waking up the neighbours
“It is not acceptable for a Minister of the Crown to implement policies that knowingly cause harm to vulnerable people. The offence of Misconduct in Public Office is committed when a public officer, acting as such, wilfully neglects to perform his duty and/or wilfully misconducts himself to such a degree as to amount to an abuse of the public’s trust in the office holder without reasonable excuse or justification.
It is evidenced that the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions has abused the public’s trust by knowingly implementing policies that cause harm to vulnerable people. We, the undersigned, call for the Minister to be indicted for the offence.”
Feel free to add your name to the petition:
https://www.change.org/p/director-of-public-prosecutions-prosecute-ministers-who-knowingly-cause-harm-to-vulnerable-people
I am deeply shocked and I would be grateful if you can publish my Open Letter about this to my MP:
From: L. Walker
Sent: 27 August 2015 15:50
To: ‘BLACKMAN-WOODS, Roberta’
Subject: UK-Dept.Work & Pensions loses battle – Benefit Claimants death rates
Importance: High
Ms Roberta Blackman-Woods MP
Houses of Parliament
Westminster Palace
London, UK
Dear Ms Blackman-Woods,
Further to a number of emails I sent you in regards to the issue with the numbers of Welfare Benefit claimants who died subsequently to the policies of the Conservative Government led by David Cameron and his Work & Pensions Secretary of State, Ian Duncan-Smith, I am writing to draw your attention to the following links:
1. The CHANGE.ORG Petition [click the link to access] signed by almost a quarter of a million signatories, with the conclusion of this process now published.
2. The Summary published by VOX POLITICAL [click to access], following the defeat of the Department of Work & Pensions in the Court of Appeal, which has in effect FORCED the Dept for Work & Pensions to publish the data they worked so hard to conceal from Public view!
Needless to say Madam, that this email is being copied to a considerable number of domestic and international recipients, because this fight has taken years, the Tory Government has done everything possible to conceal the truth from Public View and the deaths of those who fell victim to the murderous policies of this Government led by Mr Cameron, deserve the publicity we owed to them by giving time to ourselves to be the voice of those whose deaths make it impossible for them to speak out.
I signed that Petition and I wrote to you on several occasions, and even raised the matter with the Crown Prosecution Service. Others did a lot more than I could do and it is thanks to them that the case was raised to the Courts and battled through at every stage. We all are obliged to thank them with the same passion we employ in condemning politicians in Westminster for not doing enough to take the matter further and force the Tory Government’s hand.
So I do feel at one time proud I contributed as much as I could to raise the profile of the victims, and quite emotional in my deep feelings as I took this matter to my heart and I can say I genuinely suffered for all those who died needlessly and their bereaved families. I know one such of these cases quite well, as it happened to the Father of one of my professional relations, who died of a heart attack after being found by ATOS as fit for work [even though he suffered from Heart Failure] and subsequently losing his Welfare Support Allowance.
In most of my correspondence with you, I mentioned a suspected figure which had raised from just over 11.000 5 years ago to about 60.000 at the end of the first Tory Government, before the General Election this year.
I was wrong and I apologise for my incorrect estimation.
The actual number of people who died as a direct or indirect consequence of losing their Welfare Support Allowances [again, this was the result of the Policies alterations made by the Tory Government, several of them supported by the Labour Party] is actually just short of 100.000!!!
Madam MP, one death would be bad enough. Almost one hundred thousand deaths is so bad, so terribly bad that I fail to find words to qualify the figure now released under Court Order by the Dept. For Work & Pensions!
It may not be known abroad, but we have no excuse do we?… Both you and I know perfectly well that if this was a political deed of any other government in the World, especially in the least developed regions, the UK Authorities would be up in arms and hysterically waving their supposed rock-solid credentials to condemn such deed with immediate effect.
The Court battle now concluded and subsequent release of the data however, should not be the end of this process. Indeed it must be the beginning of a Public Inquiry or a Criminal Investigation. I remain convinced in my view that under any reasonable person’s common sense, this matter is highly suspicious of organisational or State-induced manslaughter.
I am afraid that failure in UK Statutory Law to make the State accountable for the said crime in the same manner it does, for example, with Corporate Manslaughter, that failure, I say, to put the State under the same rule is in itself yet another example of how double-standards dominate British Politics, and indeed a disturbing example of State’s moral bankruptcy.
One hundred thousand deaths in 5 years, of people who relied on State Welfare support and then died shortly after they lost that support because of Government rules changes, may not be in itself a crime if it is not written down as such in UK Law. But IT IS and IT REMAINS A CRIME, regardless. It is so, because in all probability a considerable majority of those who died would still be alive and getting by as best as they could, had they not suffered the loss of that life-line Welfare Assistance should provide.
In this sense, I have no doubt to point an accusatory finger at Westminster politicians who allowed this to happen, at those who made it into Law and at those who signed this horror into Law and gave it legal form by giving it Royal Assent.
We all have a right to choice in Life! And so it is clear to me that it is possible to choose NOT to dip one’s finger in the blood pool of the potential victims by allowing or contributing in some way to it so that it becomes effective at the task of destroying lives, killing vulnerable people, leaving hundreds of thousands of relatives bereaved by the needless loss of their loved ones.
This is the moral conundrum I ask you to consider, Madam MP!!!… The UK State in its various forms, people, representatives, organisations and Institutions has actively acted in a manner that has resulted in the deaths of almost 100.000 vulnerable people.
It may not be a crime in the strict sense of the Law. But it is a terrible crime in the moral laws of civilised people in supposedly civilised societies, whose first duty should be to protect its most vulnerable.
In that sense Madam MP, I am relieved that I do not count myself in the numbers of those who will have to deal with the moral responsibility of their actions or lack thereof, when the time comes to consider their lives and meet their Maker!
Kindest regards
L. Walker
Labour Party Grassroots Member
L Walker……. Excellent letter , should indeed be posted openly for all to see. You express that which most of us humans feel.
Vote no confidence in David Cameron find and sign this, put it in search
Can you please post the total number of people coming off incapacity benefits?
I don’t have that number. Also – to what end? People sign onto and off of benefits all the time and it is perfectly normal.
I believe the point would be that it would allow for the calculation of crude mortality rates. This allows a better answer to the question of whether or not people who do come off ESA (in various ways, included being forced off by being declared ‘fit-to-work’) are dying more frequently than the general population (or perhaps even people in the WRAG).
There’s another government statistical release about mortality rates, but – oh – it’s a cynical fudge, with the calculation starting when incapacity benefit claims were at their highest-ever point.
What the actual figures show is that the death rate between December 2011 and February 2014 averaged out at 99 people a day – more than three times as many as the 32 a day that was the average between January and November 2011. Meanwhile, the national death rate is falling.
I think it about time for all the good people of the UK to stand up and be counted call for a vote of no confidence in the government get on to your local MP and lobby him force him to do your wishes that is what we put them in for to do the best for all not just for the few you need to get this government out otherwise the next figure will be double what it is wrong with you all if a foreign government had killed 100000 of its citizens we would be wanting to intervene on humanitarian grounds what is the matter with you get off your butts and do something about it next will be the OAP s next after the disabled PLEASE DO SOMETHING THIS CAN NOT BE LEFT TO CONTINUE.
I’m an OAP (still working a bit at 70) and whenever the subject of income is raised, I am told I am on benefits, benefits being my State Pension that I’ve worked for. So yes – call the pension a benefit and we’re next in line to be denied it.
I thank you, Mike, for all your hard work to date. Naturally I am horrified at these figures (always assuming they are correct) and I am grateful to you for bringing them out into the open for the general public. It is an utter disgrace that genuine claimants and their families are subjected to so much stress while trying to ensure that the correct benefits are paid out to people who are already suffering physically, mentally and/or psychologically. It is completely unforgivable and unacceptable to allow claimants to actually have to go without food or heat or even risk losing their housing while any new claim is being processed and yet this happens. My own disabled son would more than likely have lost his rented accommodation at one point if we, his parents, had not been in a position to help him financially; how many other unfortunate souls HAVE been made homeless or have become suicidal because they have not had financial and/or emotional support from family or friends, when all it takes is for an interim payment to be made while the new figures are being worked out and then any necessary adjustment being made afterwards instead of withholding payment completely? Why on earth can’t the ‘powers-that-be’ effect this simple solution? I think there can be no doubt whatsoever that deaths in the support group and the assessment phase ARE being artificially hastened by the DWP’s treatment. It is a well-known fact that stress plays a major part in the deterioration of many conditions and the whole system as it is now seems to be devoted to causing such stress with its bureaucratic paperwork and endless frustrating delays.
This has been a long time coming, hold you head in shame, Mr Cameron, Mr IDS. I have seen and experienced the treatment of the mentally ill by this government and it is shocking.
Thank you for your hard work & persistence on this Mike; the numbers can be checked over by someone who is much better with stats than I am, but does it seem the daily rate of death increased threefold?
We were obviously expecting it to be bad, as govt. spent so much time & effort trying to avoid releasing any numbers at all, but…
Just one thing wrong in your piece; not everyone in WRAG is expected to recover within a year (or at all, necessarily) – they just don’t fit the points system in a way that gets them into support group.
That is one of the things with the system that causes confusion; people with lifelong conditions that prevent them from being in regular work don’t always end up in the Support Group and that’s not the fault of the assessor or the Decision Maker, it’s the way the system is designed. Points for being unable to do a very limited number of tasks for most/ all of the time don’t tally with real life very well & some of the things “measured” during ESA assessments don’t seem to relate to employability at all.
Would anybody care to respond?
Yes, the system is designed to fail, the points allocated are across different categories, mental illness, physical illness and requiring 3rd party to feed, wash, for toilet etc.
In between you are encouraged to list things that will fail you.
The whole thing is designed to fail you and now it seems to kill you.
I am a mental heath nurse .I took early retirement recently
I couldnt work within a system where the poor the sick the chronically ill ir those with diagnoses of schizophrenia bi-polar and other associated doagnosis were and are being dischsrged by the 100s
No support no monitoring some on care packages a few hours a week
People who have been intractably damaged through illness and medication for years .Some have never worked others make valiant attempts but dont manage.
Constant pressure on them constant media demonisation have rendered them constanly scared anxious.
In many cases people feeling that they are evil for claiming.
They are now in a position all over the country where they languish undupported socially isolated no medical care other than Gp
When sent forms who is your keyworket none who is your psychiatriast none so conclusion you must be fit
Disgraceful shame
My youngest have just been discharged. He suffers schizophrenia and often tries to kill himself but now get no support.. My husband is bi-polar and does work but he does the same job as me and gets full support in that way, he does not get any other support. Support for mental health is not there anymore as the money have been cut back and back.
I fail to understand as to why IDS and the DWP are not being prosecuted for murder which is surely what they have done and continue to do.
A totally misleading report in the Daily Mail or rather Daily Fail: “Revealed: Almost 2,400 people who were declared ‘fit to work’ and taken off benefits in government crackdown were DEAD within two weeks.”
Perhaps the good people here would like to comment to set the record straight because it doesn’t even mention the figure Mike speaks of here of 91,740 people.
It’s still good because it’s pointing out that the government marked people fit for work when they were nothing of the kind.
My son lost his money for a full year, classed as fit for work but could not claim dole as was unfit for work. He got though it only by the fact he lived here and we paid for his needs. If he lived alone he would have been one of these on this list. Breaks my heart to see other suffer like this. knew one person that killed himself when he found himself in the same boat but without family to help him. Wish Duncan Smith found himself in the same boat.
These figures are horrendous. No wonder Duncan-Smith lied and prevaricated for months on end, hoping that he wouldn’t have to release them. Well done to Mike for forcing him to make them public. What now though?
Well done Mike! Now lets see a proper Labour Party Opposition lead the SNP and others against a Sick Conservative Government that is uncannily similar to the ideology of the Nazis in the 30’s and 40’s. The Nation needs to be led as only a fully awake and active Labour Party can. Surely this cannot be ignored!
Well done Mike, I applaud your tenacity!
It seems to be Ian Duncan Smiths and the tory policy is to let people die under there rule. Perhaps in time to save money and line there pockets further they will bring in a law that when you reach a certain age you will be given the needle.
Did you ever see/read Logan’s Run?
Consider the framing of debates on assisted suicide or voluntary euthanasia. Key word ‘burden’ and peg now with debate on welfare claimants and the disabled and terminally ill. I kid you not. A worrying dependency in debate and framing on top of ‘poverty porn’ and wider denigration.
Some of those within certain categories within the tallies Mike has gained access to would be a ‘market segment’ for people like Dignitas if those laws would be put through. You can imagine a GPs helpful advice can you not? Terminally ill, poor and benefits removed and a GP approached for help with ‘lessening experienced suffering’ in a country where assisted suicide is legal.
Mike, I am so pleased to see that your ‘vexatious’ perseverance has finally paid off. I have not read the report yet, but I checked to see what the media were making of this report, and this is what I have found so far:
The Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) has released figures showing at least 2,380 people died shortly after being declared ‘fit for work’ between 2011 and 2014.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13630395.DWP_reveals_benefit_claimant_deaths/
Nearly 10,000 people claiming benefits died in the space of a little over two years, after being declared fit for work, according to new figures.
http://www.rt.com/uk/313623-thousands-killed-benefit-sanctions/
2,300 die within year of being declared ‘fit for work’ by DWP
https://fullfact.org/economy/dwp_publishes_benefit_claimant_deaths-47572
DWP figures on benefit claimant deaths: what they do and don’t tell us
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34074557
More than 2,300 died after fit for work assessment – DWP figures
The first report is from Telegraph….
We cannot trust Georgy Smith or his DWP, so unless and until these figures are validated by the Office for National Statistics they must be regarded with suspicion as likely to be under-reporting.
take statistically significant numbers, divide into 2 groups with similar range of age & disabilities – Group 1 has people who have claimed and Group 2 people who have not made a claim thro DWP.
COMPARE THE DEATH RATE IN EACH GROUP and if therre is a marked difference then te bDWP has some explaining to do.
Enlist the help of a reputable statistician to do the analysis there must some who would be happy to do this pro bono
Brian O Donovan
Okay, last night I was directed to a post on RightsNet, in which someone there had crunched the numbers regarding people who had been classified ‘fit for work’ and then died.
There were 2,650 of them (we can’t add in the number of people who appealed because they may be the same people), and over the same period there were 742,000 ‘fit for work’ decisions. We cannot use that number with confidence because the same claimant may have had multiple ‘fit for work’ decisions made about them, but the number provides an upper limit for us to work within. 2,650 suggests 0.35 per cent of the total died within a two-week period of a FFW decision – bearing in mind that the total is too high, so the percentage is too low by an unknown amount. In 2013 there were 74,600 deaths in a working-age population of around 39 million, meaning the chance of dying in any two-week period was 0.007 per cent.
So, bearing in mind the issue with the number of ‘fit for work’ decisions, we can say that the probability of a person dying after a ‘fit for work’ decision from the DWP is AT LEAST 50 times greater than the probability of death among the wider population.
What do you think?
The divisiveness of the Coalition and now the Conservative Government over the last 5 years is staggering and frightening. The systematic attack on the most vulnerable in our society, using tactics of vilification and isolation, carried out under the guise of necessary austerity and the cynical creation of a distinction between those who are to be considered deserving and those who are not is utterly reprehensible Thank you for all you are doing Mike.
Be it Atos Unum DW&P or IDS personally (after all they all work or report to Him) all have this in common: they are less than straight forward when it comes to reporting the truth
“If you can’t convince them, confuse them; If you can’t confuse them, corrupt them” if somebody dies along the way well that’s one less we need to convince and find some new way to make them go away”
In addition to those who have died IDS should now provide figures of how many people The DW&P have sent P45’s too : who haven’t found jobs and now have had the state effectively sent packing: leaving them without any social support financial or not
I suspect the Figure to make the near 100,00 poor souls in this report seem small because it will weigh in at around 2.5 Million That I estimate have been missing from the Official Employment/Un-Employment figures these past years
It would be interesting to know how many of those who died were second time applicants. Many who need help can’t even get passed their GP’s who are blatantly obstructing referrals.All the institutes are rigged and unaccountable. Especially the Police services who are 99% free to do whatever they feel like to whoever they feel like. Nobody climbs the ladder in the Police service unless they are prepared turn a blind eye, enter false data into the systems, and lose crime reports. Then you have the Serious Fraud Office refusing to acknowledge crime reports about its own staff, about the extortion of London Taxi driver assets by wanted terrorists in the Met who were caught destroying business unaccountably to boost the sales of new cabs, and to feed their mates in the cash taxi rental business they run like the Mafia. And after years of waiting for somewhere legitimate to complain what does the pathetic IPCC do on behalf of all these abused taxi drivers? It accommodates the Met by turning a blind eye while they cover up the theft of hundreds of Taxi driver assets as civil matters, and cover up serious and organised human rights abuses. All the institutes are rigged by a criminal mindset owned by banksters, you would have to be naive not to see or believe it. Our leaders are but trusted self seekers who cannot fix the economy, and cannot pay their bills without robbing their own citizens. Its all rigged by idiots who would not know their own entrepreneurs if they walked around labelled.
They covered up serious and organised fraud as civil matters. We are still waiting for real policemen to investigate these crimes. London Taxi driver 56367
Can you support these allegations with factual evidence?
I think I know where IDS got his ideology.
Poogey’s Donkey.
Poogey was short of cash and so he decided that to save money he would teach his donkey to eat less. Gradually he reduced the amount the donkey ate. He had just taught his donkey to eat nothing when it died.
Please don’t blame IDS if vulnerable people are allergic to starvation – eh?
So then Mr. Smith…..we have the death statistics on your fakers and scroungers.
I cannot see any fakes, malingerers or scroungers amongst the death toll, they all told the truth about their issues.
Which is more than can be said about you Mr. Smith.
This is horrific, we’ve had another year and a half of this so you have to wonder what the figures are now. The Tory government should be shamed by this but so too should we as a nation, we allowed this party into power with an archaic voting system and we allow them to continue with their destruction and eradication of the people and rights they should protect. We should get what we as a nation want and changes made etc. What we will get though I expect is more lies, half truths and the misrepresentation of statistics.
Ah, but did we allow the Tories into power? Google:-
Aangirfan: ‘RIGGED UK GENERAL ELECTION’ – MAY 2015
HERE IS HOW THE ELECTION IN UK WAS RIGGED Youtube
I comes as no surprise to me as I became increasingly ill when I was told that I had been put into the work related assessment group after many years of being severely disabled. The citizen’s advise were no help when I phoned them crying. After a few days my tears turned to anger and I decided to appeal and suddenly I was proclaimed disabled again. It has taken me a long time to recover from the damage that this upset and worry did to me and my family, but I feel that I am brighter now. But who knows how long it will last with these heartless people in charge. They remind me of Scrooge “then let them die and and decrease the surplus population.”
This is horrendous. The government need to be taken to task and we need the truth not lies from them. They should be removed from office. We should have a new government from the people not the rich.
No matter how IDS and the DWP paint it, what they are doing to the most vulnerable in our society and everyone else for that matter is evil, there’s no better word for it, sheer, sick, twisted, pure evil, should must be done about this vile, odious little **** that is IDS, he should be sacked and prosecuted for all that he has done, he has much blood on his hands!
As I mentioned on another site, people are convinced that all benefit claimants are scroungers. Any criticism of welfare reforms is ignored, just happy with how much money has been saved from this persecution.
Having endured the WCA process for a couple of years, I can truthfully say it has pretty well destroyed me. I could fight on or remove my troublesome body from this world…..and I’m still fighting! But I am so angry at the misleading information and blatant deceit from the DWP, what a despicable way to behave!
To all the people speaking up for us, My heartfelt gratitude and thanks.
Keep fighting!
Is it possible that at least some of increase in the raw frequency of deaths of ESA claimants is because the number of ESA claimants substantially increased over the period that you’re looking at?
I understood that people were only transferred from IB/SDA over the period March 2011 – March 2014, so I’d assume that the number of claiming ESA increased substantially over that period.
I think this is a fairly factor: http://i.imgur.com/o2594J4.png?1
The transfer of claims from IB/SDA to ESA? Yes – because the criteria are harsher for ESA, with no supportable justification.
That’s certainly possible.
However, my point was that your claim that there were only 10k deaths or so of people on incapacity benefits in 11 months – at any point in the last 10 years – is obviously incorrect.
The figure you are claiming reflects the number of deaths of those on incapacity benefits (ESA, IB, SDA) between January and November 2011 only reflects the number of deaths for those who were receiving ESA.
A further 30k (or thereabouts) people will have died who were receiving IB or SDA in that period.
The analysis is much more difficult than you make out, because the introduction of ESA takes place against a background of falling mortality in general. The question is whether or not the mortality rate would have fallen further if ESA hadn’t been introduced.
I can only promise you that I’m _not_ trying to show that the introduction of ESA hasn’t caused unnecessary harm and deaths. I am trying to show you that your particular analysis is badly flawed.
What you’re really showing is that the DWP didn’t properly come clean with the figures in 2012.
Again, possibly. They responded to the request as given (“Can you please provide me with the number of ESA claimants who have died in 2011?”) but I think that you’re right they should have been intelligent and cooperative enough to provide IB/SDA figures alongside them (and explain why).
The 2012 document (https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/223050/incap_decd_recips_0712.pdf) does at least have IB/SDA & ESA for the financial years 2008/09, 2009/10 and 2010/11. In each case, it’s a total of just over 40k deaths per year. (In that context, I hope you can see that it’s clearly implausible that only 10k died between January and November in 2011.)
The chart that I linked – http://i.imgur.com/o2594J4.png – is probably a better source though, as the methodology is a bit more consistent and sensible. (It’s from the ASMR document but, to be clear, it shows raw numbers of claimants and deaths.)
Exactly – I asked for IB and ESA claimants, but they gave me IB, SDA and ESA claimants, so I don’t see why they couldn’t be consistent.
No – the stats show an increase in deaths among claimants of all incapacity benefits, including those from which people were migrated onto ESA. Keep trying.
I think you’ve misunderstood what the 10,600 deaths from January 2011 to November 2011 refer to. These are deaths of people who were claiming ESA, not ESA+IB/SDA. (I know you know the source, but for the sake of reference, see: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/223050/incap_decd_recips_0712.pdf) About 30k or so people died in this period who were claiming IB or SDA.
How do you make sense of the chart that I’ve linked to? (There’s no standardisation going on there – those are raw numbers of recipients and deaths at or soon after claiming.)
Thank you so much for fighting and never giving up , as human beings we owe it to the 91,450 to do something about it , we have opened the door now we all need to walk through it UNITED IN BRINGING THESE HEINOUS TORIES TO BOOK , not in the public interest it beggers belief if they can cover this up what else have they covered up , what is the nxt course of action Mike 100,000 signatures needed to debate this in parliament ???? We are not going to let them get away with it this time , people power can crush these power hungry tories to pulp, i just hope we all have stomach for it because i know i have , well done Mike and various others you restore my faith in justice and humanity !
why has my reply not been published?
Because WordPress, in its wisdom, dumped your comment in the spam file instead of the pending file. The last couple of days have been extremely busy here, for obvious reasons, and I’m just now getting around to checking what’s in there, dragging it out and working out what to do with it.
Other people’s comments have been wrongly allocated too, but they have waited patiently. Why do you think you should get special treatment?
I simply cannot understand why this government continues to rob the poor and disabled whilst throwing money at useless projects. The Trident project will cost over £100 billion, do we need it and importantly, can we afford it?
Hi Mike well done for sticking to your guns over the FOI like a lot of people I feel relieved to know that we have genocide under the guise of sanctions, this may seem harsh but my wife and I have both given aid to those who have had this medieval and barbaric torture placed on them by this caring Government. Lets hope now we can get this heard in the European Court of Human Rights (1950) under article 2.
I’m confused, the main stream media are reporting only 2300 deaths?
People found fit for work, rather than deaths among all claimants.
I find it hard to believe that the DWP hold no details on cause of death. With current data protection laws even someone who is completely incapable of dealing on their own behalf must give consent for an agent to deal with this system for them.
Surely the cancellation of a claim due to death would require some form of proof and this would be in the form of a death certificate which, correct me if I’m wrong will include a cause of death. I realise that in the case of suicide a coroner will need to be involved, and verdicts vary due to non-standardisation of the system, but there must be plenty of other evidence available for other causes of death.
As for the figures released, hey are a nonsense and I suspect vastly under estimate the true figures which do not form part of the DWP stats
Government are sanction murderers
Said on Yahoo and other internet news that only over 2000 people have died from their cuts, are they for real?!
They’re concentrating on the people who were found fit for work – for the obvious reason that it’s clear something went wrong if they died after the government said they were fit.
So basically 30 people died per day before and the Conservatives have managed to increase this by 300% to 99 a day.
Well it is just what they want, the issue for me is the number of suicides, I am sure a large proportion of those deaths were as a direct result of IDS and his policies, I am sure he is secretly happy he has killed mothers, fathers, brothers and sisters of so many. It does after all cancel their claim.
Never mind that he has scrapped one IT system for Universal Credit and is now forecast to spend £13 biiilllion on the new system,
Now he has plans to reduce the ESA higher level to JSA level of £73 a week AND he wants 2 hours work out of people on ESA. Why? Well maybe he can kill a few more or maybe he just like kicking people when they are down, being the coward he is.
I can only wish that the misery he had brought on so many is returned to him and his seed.
When there are 300 children killed a year on our roads we have a massive Government campaign. So what will we get when IDS kills 69 extra people a day!
The 30 deaths a day level was an increase caused by the Conservative/Coalition government.
Regarding cause of death: The DWP is saying it isn’t recorded but I have been given information which may prove that to be untrue.
It is going to be very interesting to start seeing some of the pathology reports.
I would have committed suicide had I not know that you could appeal. Some murderous pen pusher came to visit me and in 30 minuets decided I was fit for work when my mental health worker and my GP who Ive been seeing for the past 20 plus years agreed I am best to carry on as I am on incapacity benefits as I know this is the ONLY way I can cope with my life. I am not proud that I live on benefits but at least I AM ALIVE!
Congratulations on finally getting them to publish the stats.
Since parliament is not in session, now is probably a better time to publish from IDS’s perspective. By the time they reconvene it will be hard to get anyone to raise the question in the house. The figures are appalling and I rather think that a strong direct correlation between the deaths and the benefits withdrawal could and should be made if the wish is to make the MP’s sit up and take notice. Not an easy task especially since half the country is more obsessed with the immigration fiasco.
I really do hope that IDS is at least required to answer for the number of deaths on his watch, but he is a slippery eel so watch him wriggle out of it.
OK, correlations are not evidence of causality, but they are unequivocally a damn good reason to trying to find out if there is a causal relationship.
IDS and his team, as ever, distorting for all they’re worth – which ain’t a lot.
Revolution is what we need. How can they get away with it. I know I am in a more disabled condition than the last time I was assessed, and was granted the support group “indefinitely”, but I am really concerned and worried that somehow I will be put in the fit for work group because of the way the assessment process is set up.
Unqualified , non – medically trained people ticking boxes and getting paid well without a thought of the consequences of their actions and how they will affect the people they are assessing. The whole process is degrading and you have to lay yourself bare to these people, describing the most intimate details of your condition all the time hoping you use the right wording for them to tick the right box in your favour.
I am surprised that even more people are not taking their own lives just for being put through this alone. Never mind any result of the assessment or any decision through an appeal.
I knew it would be high – but not that high. It turns my stomach. I am too afraid to even try and claim ESA for fear it will make me worthless and suicidal. I go without.
It’s like throwing disabled people out of a sinking boat.
To understand why people should not rely on the state to look after them, people should watch this.. Everyone.. please watch this and learn. Its a documentary called Britain’s trillion pound horror story http://www.veoh.com/watch/v205926104rd9GssB
Surely a death certificate (or copy) is required? And doesn’t every death certificate state the cause of death?
I can’t say whether the DWP demands a death certificate before stopping a claim (I doubt it).
But I do think the DWP is told a cause of death and will be writing about this later.
Hi mike,
I had to ring the DWP in December 2013 to report a death, all they wanted to know was:
My name
my relationship to the client
claimants name
claimants date of birth
claimants NI number
address of claimant
date of death/where they died
benefits claimed by the claimant.
They never asked cause of death or send in a death cert.
hope that helps.
(im glad to say that this person was not involved with the issues at the moment).
Interesting. This conflicts with what I have been told.
Looking back mike, the only time they wanted a death cert was if payments were needed for claiming funeral payments.
I remembered, they asked me if I needed assistance with payments for undertakers, if we did, then proof of death and bank statements needed to be sent off to the DWP, as well as my personal details.
Nothing I can add but surprise surprise, who ever could have foreseen this. Thank god for those with with kindness who bothered to sign & make known what starving & terrifying people drives them to
Could this be more nefarious than what has already been stated? Have those sick who are claiming ESA and many long term unemployed been targeted i.e. made sicker to help them on their way out of this world? We know the technology is real with microwave weapons, ask Barrie Trower. The NAZI’s would have done that. Would this Government really care if they all died and freed up more money for them to feed the rich? And another thing, why doesn’t the Government trust the NHS to do work capability assessments? Why don’t they trust the assessments of Doctors, paid for in taxes, who know the patients better than a stranger at ATOS or what ever next private company they intend to throw millions of tax money at? This is of course a way of getting millions of tax money into private hands and harming the sick simultaneously.. You can only imagine the back handers that might take place with those kind of multi million £ deals. No one needs private companies involved in these assessments, they never did..and what would that save by not paying them over £500m a year?
Thank you, Mike, for persisting so strongly with this. It’s truly dreadful what is being done to the poor, the sick and the disabled by this government. Like all cowards they’ve picked on the weakest and most vulnerable who can’t defend themselves against this onslaught. The refrain of ‘we’ll always protect the most vulnerable’ is yet another of their lies because no real people actually qualify for this category as far as they are concerned.
Thank-you again for standing up for the sick and disabled.
One Third KILLED
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/456359/mortality-statistics-esa-ib-sda.pdf
trying to hide bad news when parliament is not sitting as with the net migration figures
I came off Incapacity Benefit and went onto JSA 3 years ago as I wanted to work again, despite my mental health issues. I got a job in the place where I went to volunteer – to build up my experience of the workplace again – after being rejected at interview 8 times, and other soul-destroying interviews/applications. I have to pass a 6 month probation period which today I was called in about and has been extended – my line manager is making stuff up about me and questioning my capability to do the job, and if my union rep hadn’t spoken up for me at the meeting I’m certain I would’ve lost my job. I am no better off financially by doing this job than I was on benefits. Behind the statistics are individuals who were failed by the society that is meant to protect them. What’s that quote about a measure of a society being how it treats its most vulnerable? It is shamefully too late for those people whose only crime was to be vulnerable in a merciless Tory ruled nation, but I still have my voice so heartfelt thanks Mike and the people who’ve commented and used their voices to speak up for those who don’t have one any more.
Welcome to THE NEW WORLD ORDER!
Well done Mike great work, I think what we must not lose sight of is, that the Government have put these in a bracket called “deaths” in general, but how many thousands of these so called deaths are desperate people who have taken their own lives, directly because of IDS scheme, (Corporate Manslaughter), and because they found there was no other option directly due to the actions of IDS and his sanctions, which in itself is a breach of human rights.
I’d like to see a headline along the lines of:
DWP Actions May Be The Cause Of More Than 90 Deaths Per Day
Or
DWP Disabled Claimant Death Rate Risen 200% since 2011
But I won’t hold my breath.
Thanks for you tenaciousness in getting this information, Mike.
Excellent work! I agree with Samuel Miller, it would be worth getting an epidemiologist, or an actuary, to look at the figures and give a science- and statistics-based assessment of the numbers of deaths due to the change in benefits policy. There will be some deaths in any group of people, even younger age groups and especially where there are people with long term illnesses, and changes in the benefits regime may change the composition of the group. The changes have clearly had a massive impact, but it would be good to have as accurate an estimate as possible of ‘excess’ deaths, to leave the DWP with no room to spin.
It is difficult enough for people to cope with physical pain everyday from their medical conditions, the side effects of prescription drugs & generally getting through the day without the added stress, hardship & despair imposed on them by their own government who have cut & blocked legal aid & charity help for thousands of these people who have nowhere to turn. How many have become reliant on food banks? How many have taken their own lives because of sanctions. Isn’t it against the Human Rights Act for governments to sanction their own people, the most vulnerable at that? Yes, all of this tyranny is not not dissimilar to 1940’s Germany.
When Ian Duncan Smith’s wife contracted cancer, he took six months off work. This, after announcing this week that ‘work is good for your health’.
No workfare for Betsy, stacking shelves in Poundland for no pay. Tragically, this is what his ‘reforms’ mean for other cancer sufferers.
Is greater hypocrisy possible?
Remember Betsygate? IDS employed his wife to be his secretary but it later transpired that she did no work. In his world, the sick & disabled work for no pay, while his wife does no work for a lot of pay from taxpayer money. He charges expenses for breakfasts, underpants, haircuts & wetwipes, ad infinitum, while a Tory media smear campaign labels the poor & sick as scroungers.
Father & son Keenan & Keith Mitchell were forced to live in a tent throughout the winter after being evicted from the home they’d always lived in due to IDS’s bedroom tax. The son had all of his toes amputated after suffering FROSTBITE. Stephanie Bottrill threw herself in front of a lorry when the bedroom tax was introduced, leaving a note blaming the government because she ‘couldn’t afford to live any more. Yet IDS lives rent free in his father in law’s mansion.
And I’m wondering if the General Election was rigged in favour of the Tories, it can be easily found on google & youtube.
God help us all.
Please also sign the petition on the governments own website asking for a vote of no confidence in IDS. https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/104436.
If any petition on their website reaches 100,000 they have to debate it in Parliament, so please share as much as you can and get everyone you can to sign it.
They don’t have to debate in Parliament if a petition reaches 100,000 – they have to decide whether to do so.
It’s a fine distinction but an important one. In the last Parliament, the backbench business committee (which was tasked with considering petitions with more than 100,000 signatories at the time) decided not to debate a petition on the benefit system, so members of the Parliamentary Labour Party debated it on an Opposition Day instead.
Just been looking at the Data tables: Mortality statistics: out-of-work working age benefit claimants. In table 6 it has the mortality rates for the ESA population. They haven’t included the “fit for work” group, which was specifically requested under an FOI request. The request was for data from 2011 to present which has been responded to in the mortality statistics document. They have the data and clearly there is interest in it, so I wonder why they have chosen not to include it in the data tables?
Are you looking at the ASMRs? The document concerning mortality of IB, SDA and ESA claimants is where the ‘fit for work’ information may be found.
Just heard you on 5 Live, MIke. Well done, mate.
Thanks. That was a very frustrating interview! They had their figures wrong, they were concentrating on a very small number of deaths when there were 91,000 to discuss, and they kept interrupting!
Congratulations Mike, this is a worthy campaign. Correlation is not cause but these stark figures demand analysis and explanation. The extent of this minority government (36% of the vote?) attack on justice (end legal aid,court charges for those convicted) the poor (benefit cap, bedroom tax and substitution of inferior discriminatory “reforms”), the human rights act, union right of workers etc. represents an extreme agenda whilst they do nothing to raise productivity to boost the economy but rely on consumer spending to keep the City of London content.
Thanks Mike ? I don’t have time to read the comments just yet, but I’ll come back to read them. I just wanted to thank you for all your hard work xxx
From a pip and ESA claimant xxx
… and the sound bite they are running with in subsequent news clips is [paraphrased]
“…if they were assessed as fit for work then why are they dead?”
Great tenacity. Again, well done.
IDS and Cameron are both guilty of MANSLAUGTHER, almost on a genocidal scale. I spoke to my last Labour PPC about this, and her legal background made her very interested in this, sadly she wasn’t elected. The media are so tightly gagged about this, that they cannot actually do anything about it to really bring it to our attention.
The governmental puppets, the BBC, will certainly do nothing, except maybe run a parallel story that makes it look like the benefits system IDS has brought in actually works.
I love my country, I hate the money grabbing government that is ruining it.
My father in law died earlier this year. He was on incapacity benefits and is one of the 100,000. He died from liver cancer. Does that mean the benefits killed him or was it the three decades of alcoholism and spending most of his adult life smoking 40 a day until he had to have a triple heart bypass?
The illness killed him. I’m sorry for your loss.
I fail to see your point, here. The article takes great pains to point out that no causal link can be made between the DWP’s benefits regime and the deaths.
We know that people die while claiming sickness benefits – and that, in many cases, this is a normal part of the process.
We also know that some people have died because their claim was handled inappropriately by the DWP.
Your father-in-law’s case changes none of that.
Mike, could this be the end of the tories.
rubbish Marie not a chance in hell why do think that ?
Wishful thinking Nick
well i sincerely hope your right as to just live near to this man is a very nasty experience. it must be living nightmare for his sick and disabled constituents who have to go and see him
I am disgusted that the BBC have not mentioned any of this I have emailed the BBC to complain. More people should do this. This is a national disgrace.
if it were mentioned in any depth by the bbc then yes the government would be trouble worldwide BUT THAT’S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN
The right question that needs to be asked is – of the people who had their benefits stopped or sanctioned, how many died? The causal link would be much more difficult to refute.
Great work Mike! Let’s just hope that your tireless efforts to highlight this tragic situation will be a catalyst that will cause the downfall of this wicked regime!
https://storify.com/bengoldacre/how-dwp-has-confused-everyone-by-releasing-the-rig
It is possible to work out a crude yardstick by which to measure the death rate among claimants deemed fit for work against the national average. It turns out that people classified as ‘fit for work’ are AT LEAST 50 times more likely to die.
Joanna however, the questions were worded The DWPs approach would be just to play the Devil’s Advocate card where you and I know exactly what the questions were and what was meant by the asking of those questions
The very term ‘fit to work is subjective’, I’ll use myself as an example. My condition is Hyper Manic Depression (Bipolar if you prefer the PC, sounds less serious version). I would be fit to work if: 1. An employer was happy for me to just come in on ‘good’ days, when hyper and likely to be a danger to myself and other. 2. If asked to work while depressed its like asking a snail to roller skate! I do voluntary work when ever possible and do not like receiving benefits but feel at least I try to ‘be of use’ in the world…. Anyway, I was deemed fit to work in 2013, then went to a first tier tribunal and was infront of the Judge and a QUALIFIED Physiatrist for just 5 minutes before the case was thrown out… The result was 9 months of stress struggling to pay the bills that only caused me to become more ill worrying while waiting to prove what I knew already… I’m really not well! Suicide wasn’t an option as I have 2 children now, however 24 years ago things were different for me so I can we understand why people are dying!!!
Tell me something.
After you were deemed fit for work, how long did it take for the DWP to cut off your benefit?
I lost a friend probably not helped by the constant assessments/interrogations,being made to go on stupid courses that didn’t make him better,IDS and the whole rotten lot that rule over us have a hell of a lot of deaths on their hands,it hardly gets mentioned in the majority of the mainstream media,probably as they control most of it.
How the hell is this guy still in a job?He’s got thousands of skeletons in his cupboard,no doubt a big massive walk in cupboard paid for by tax payers claimed on expenses,when will this ever end?
There should be a full investigation, I had to go through the appeal process since February last year and only got paid after decision at beginning of august this year.!!!! lucky I had family to support me through it, now I am moving far away from them, I suffer with epilepsy and have arthritis with no cartridge left in my big toes and I was expected to go to the wrag, every time I had to go I had a seizure in my sleep the night before and with a high risk of sudep, no one will still listen… so worried about move now as well as within a month of moving they will probably make me do another assessment, make me fill in a PIP and probably make me go through the whole process again!!!!….
This Just sucks, I hate the way these people just ignore specialists letters, (take neurologists one for example STATING this person needs full supervision through out the night) do they take that into account no, stated you dont need support during the night in letter WTF…
Amazing work Mike. I’m autistic and have other mental health probs and get ESA and luckily my local council agreed that i shouldn’t have to pay the council tax which everyone one on benefits has to pay since austerity came in (what is the point in giving people money they then have to give to the council in tax? its just so they can say they haven’t cut the benefits when in fact everyone is at least £15-30 a month worse off). but before they came to that decision i was in real trouble with rising fuel bill, cost of food, cost of transport etc.
I felt suicidal at times over bills
now I’m not so good with the figures as you are so can you spell it out in black and white for me.
and ill accept it as your interpretation of the figures.
did the mortality rate of people on benefits almost double after the government bought in austerity measures?
and has the mortality amongst those who were found fit for work raised even further?
Thanks
You highlight one of the most serious issues with the new figures released by the DWP: They aren’t full, and therefore are not informative.
The mortality rate of people on incapacity benefits has not changed significantly for many years.
However, in the years since the Conservatives took office, many more people have been refused benefit than previously. Their fates have not been recorded but the fact that several thousand people, who were found fit for work, then died within a period of time in which it was possible for the government to register the death suggests that many more may have died without the fact being recorded by the DWP – in other words, after the period when the DWP would no longer have checked on them because their claim had ended.
Meanwhile, among those who died while still receiving benefits, we see some extraordinary increases in mortality in certain groups, which also indicates serious issues with the assessment/reassessment system, and possibly with the appeals system as well.
So let’s rephrase your questions a little.
If you were to ask me whether the mortality rate of people who had claimed incapacity benefits had increased since the government made the system harsher, I would say the evidence suggests it had.
And if you were to ask whether mortality among those who were found fit for work has increased, I would say the evidence suggests so – and that a lot more work needs to be done to discover the fate of the many hundreds of thousands of people who have been classified as “fit for work”.
Thank you sir.
Something that has been bothering me, and I wonder it does you also. Is that over the last few years we have seen a huge rise in media stereotyping of people on benefits. such as the channel 4 doll street programs.’ thee have happened at exactly the right time to sway public opinion they was this goverment wants it swayed which must surely be more than mere coincidencee.
add to this the rise in food banks and the fact the goverment seems to encourage people who cant make ends meat to use them.
now consider this perfect storm.
take an individual with social phobias, paranoia, agrophobia. make them hear endlessly how people like them must be scum for being on benefits. then suggest they go to a food bank if they want to eat. which is saying as loudly as one can ‘LOOK AT ME. IM A POOR SCUMBAG’.
Then see if they dont stave to death, or take a quicker option.
Attn Mike Sivier, have you seen this:
From Daily Mail today: “Now the meddling UN sends lawyer to Britain to probe whether benefits reforms ‘violate the human rights of the disabled’. Catalina Devandas Aguilar is expected to visit the UK in the coming months to spearhead an inquiry into claims that Britain is guilty of ‘grave or systematic violations’ of the rights of the disabled.”
Surely it is against the Human Rights Act for a government to sanction its own people?
Father & son Keenan & Keith Mitchell were forced to live in a tent after being evicted from the home they’d always lived in due to the bedroom tax. The son suffered frostbite and had all his toes amputated after a severe winter.
There are tens of thousands of heart rending stories like this one. Will you be able to speak to this woman on behalf of those who have lost their lives?
I don’t know. I haven’t been contacted yet and don’t know how to get in touch with the relevant people.
But I think I know some people who do…
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/un-to-investigate-uk-over-human-rights-abuses-against-disabled-people-caused-by-welfare-reform-10478536.html
Someone posted this email address: [email protected]
What all you people need to consider is that what the Tories are doing here – and any other party who got into government would be doing – is all part of an agenda. I fought my last ATOS appeal on the FACT that these assessments are nothing to do with people’s health but a part of a massive corrupt scam on the people of this country by a corrupt government, political parties, politicians, bankers etc using a FAKE debt/austerity scam and FAKE terrorism scam etc to rob and launder £hundreds of billions of OUR tax money etc off into off-shore accounts and is why this country is £trillions in debt and our treasury is empty. They tried to imply I was insane by sending me to a Psychiatrist but this did not work as I asked her she could assess me when I have been doing decades of research and she does not have a clue as to what I am talking about – she said she was only interested in whether I was hearing voices etc which I told her I was not and she passed me a being perfectly sane which of course I knew I was. Mind you I did not annoy her by letting her know that I have also looked into Psychiatry as well which is just quackery – not a real science – watch Psychiatry An Industry Of Death on Youtube for one example of this.
One part of this agenda is UN Agenda 21 where the Elites want to get rid of 95% of the world’s population and is part of their New World Order agenda for a One World Government DICTATORSHIP. They are using this totally FAKE debt/austerity scam to bring everyone down and steal everything from everyone – there is no need for any of this as the government/political parties can simply print their own (OUR) money tomorrow with absolutely NO debt or interest and spend that money into OUR infrastructure creating jobs and apprenticeships and they would have plenty of money for everything including looking after the sick/disabled. That is what Germany did in the 1930’s and is why they were booming while every other country was in the DELIBERATE depression cause by the same Elites/Bankers who still control all of our political parties and everything else today. This is what we should be doing and telling the Elites/Bankers where to stick their fake debt stolen from us just like the Icelandic people did.
This is what everyone should be doing who has to go through all of these corrupt assessments – learn the truth about what is really going on and fight them on that instead of your health as I did because they are not really interested in how ill etc you are anyway – in my case I won my appeal which I was disappointed in at the time because I was going to appeal it all the way up to the Court of Human Rights and they knew that as I had stated that in my appeal. The following link is where I reported on the first part of my appeal :
http://paisleyexpressions.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/better-together-ha-ha-ha-independence.html
Read the first few posts on there and watch the videos re Dr Judy Wood etc over at the right hand side to see how much you are all being conned and how corrupt this system really is and how it is all linked – the latest post when it is finished soon will even show how Hitler was warning everyone about the exact same thing back in the 1930’s hence the link to an excellent documentary about him over at the ight hand side also. There is massive fraud going on in this country and all of this is a part of this and the DWP and all of their workers are involved in all of this by their actions including the genocide of all of these people in their care – every single worker involved is personally responsible for their own actions by taking part in this and that goes for every other government worker in any other department – only following orders is not an excuse as per the Nuremberg Trials. Learn what is really going on folks and start hitting them with that as I did and it will let the people involved i carrying out these scam assessments what they are involved in as well and maybe they will grow a conscience and want to do something about this as well by stopping taking part in them.
Mike,
Really interesting post.
Are there any statistics on the number of people who have died while sanctioned?
If not, I wonder if anybody would be interested putting in a FOI request?
kind regards Robbie
Knowing the true number of deaths is just jaw dropping and chills me to the bone on how the hell this piece of vermin is still getting away with it, why haven’t we the British people stood up and said No More to him and his cronies, they are literally getting away with murder and nobody’s lifting a finger to stop them, if there ever was a time to revolt, this was it, it’s high time and long overdue, time for a purge, nature does it, it doesn’t do it any harm, it needs to do it and it does it good and we should do the same, from top to bottom, complete overhaul, it will do the country and the people of Britain a world of good!
Whilst I totally agree with you, mrmarcpc, I would much rather see the old bill march into the Commons, and take I.D.S., kicking and screaming to the cells. – It won’t happen, but that does not stop me wanting it. If it happened, can you imagine the effect it would have on the rest of the M.Ps. – We would end up with Straight Government !