Vote Leave director admits they won because they lied to the public
Over a cliff: The Brexit bus, with all its claims of a new Golden Age for the UK, teeters on the edge. Boris Johnson, in the driver’s seat, says: “Boys? I’ve got an idea.”
For information – another oldie-but-goodie:
Buried in a 19,800 word Spectator essay written by former online editor and Vote Leave director Dominic Cummings is an admission: The Brexit referendum was won by lying to the public.
And so to the damning paragraph that outs the Leave Campaign for what it was:
“Pundits and MPs kept saying ‘why isn’t Leave arguing about the economy and living standards’. They did not realise that for millions of people, £350m/NHS was about the economy and living standards – that’s why it was so effective. It was clearly the most effective argument not only with the crucial swing fifth but with almost every demographic. Even with UKIP voters it was level-pegging with immigration. Would we have won without immigration? No. Would we have won without £350m/NHS? All our research and the close result strongly suggests No. Would we have won by spending our time talking about trade and the Single Market? No way.”
To casually admit that the NHS swung the vote is an admission that the Leave campaign won because they lied to the public.
Source: Vote Leave director admits they won because they lied to the public – The London Economic
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When the people who were duped realise that these unscrupulous and grossly dishonest politicians have treated them as fools, such barefaced and outrageous lies are inevitably going to rebound with some force on the thoroughly corrupt and dishonest perpetrators.
Yes we voted leave despite the status quo being what most people would vote for because no one likes to much change, not least because Blair lied that the Lisbon treaty was not the constitution, and denied us a say, Cameron lied about getting us a deal, and that we should therefore remain, Remain have lied incessantly that despite us being on of only 6 net contributors to the eu, the second largest since we joined what we were lied to was only a trade agreement back in 1973, that somehow we get more money from the eu than we pay in, the thoroughly disgusting project fear, remain never once made a valid claim of anything positive to keep us in, campaign has been shown to have been a lie from start to whenever the remain supporters finally shut up about how they really won.
You just lied that we don’t get more money out of being in the EU than we pay in.
We get around £6.25 billion a year. I believe I shared the link to the appropriate information in response to another silly comment of yours, only a few days ago.
I believe many of your other claims are also lies, but then, what can we expect from a member of the Leave camp?
We are about £500 billion down on the deal since we were dumped into what was called the common market, we have never got more money out than we paid in we have been net contributers since day one and to say otherwise is a pure lie. You refusal to accept real facts as opposed to camerons “true facts” is exactly what we expect from the remain camp.
No, the UK profits by around £6.25 billion every year, currently. You have read my article; you can see that it uses facts.
I mean actual facts, by the way – provable figures rather than whatever you Brextremists dream up.
Tell you what mike you send me £1000 I’ll send you back £5 and you can tell everyone how you profited out of the deal because that is the same scenario that you are claiming is happening with the eu. We have been the second highest net contributor after germany since day one.
In your example, the sums would actually be me sending you £83.85, and you returning £146.05 – or multiples thereof.
Those are the actual numbers.
Here’s my article: http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2016/06/14/eu-membership-a-nice-little-earner-for-the-uk/
If you still disagree with the figures, take the matter up with the BBC and/or the Centre for Research and Analysis of Migration.
Unlike the pro eu propaganda that remain were claiming and you have fallen for EU revenue
3.1 The Own Resources Decision provides for three sources of EU revenue: customs duties and sugar levies known as Traditional Own Resources (TOR); contributions based on VAT; and GNI- based contributions. A more detailed explanation can be found in the glossary.
3.2 Chart 3.A shows a breakdown of how the 2016 EU Budget was financed. The key points to note for the 2016 EU Budget are22:
TOR is €20.2 billion (£14.9 billion) and the UK’s share is 16.0%. In 2015, outturn revenue from this source was €18.7 billion (£13.6 billion), of which the UK’s share was 17.1%
VAT-based contributions are €16.3 billion (£11.9 billion) and the UK’s share is 22.4%. In 2015, total VAT-based contributions were €18.1 billion (£13.1 billion), of which the UK’s share was 20.7%
GNI-based contributions are €97.1 billion (£71.3 billion) and the UK’s share is 17.2%. In 2015, GNI-based contributions were €101.0 billion (£73.3 billion) with a UK share of 20.4%
the estimated value of the UK’s rebate in 2016 is €6.5 billion (£4.8 billion) compared with €6.1 billion (£4.4 billion) in 2015.
Your figures are unreferenced and unclear.
However, if you are suggesting that the first numbers are for the whole of the EU, and the UK’s percentage should be used to calculate its contribution, then you come close enough to the figures in my article – http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2016/06/14/eu-membership-a-nice-little-earner-for-the-uk/
However, you are missing certain other figures.
Where are the public and private sector receipts?
And where are the public revenues raised from EU migrants?
Without those, your figures are hopelessly adrift of the actual financial position.
Well I would suggest you take your complaint up with the Office of National Statistics and report to them why they are wrong.
They’re not wrong – as far as they go, which I take it is as far as they were told to go.
YOU have simply failed to include relevant amounts.
You may also want to complain to the eu that their publications are not correct and that they have no idea of how much they take in direct tax on top of the donations we make every year.
Why would I want to do that? YOU are the one having trouble with your figures.
I’m not having any trouble with the figures that come from the ONS which isn’t told what to produce or the eu’s own claims they are not my figures they are the official ones which you seem to not want to accept.
On the contrary – I did accept them. I merely pointed out that YOU haven’t included all the numbers necessary to produce an accurate figure.
I have supplied the information that shows your unsubstantiated claim is incorrect you have supplied nothing but a claim that somehow a talking shop in Brussels generates finances and hands it out to everyone with nothing being lost by any nation whatsoever, I’m sure the London school of Economics would be thrilled to see how the eu makes money out of nothing, which sounds like a ponzi scheme where everyone but the person running it loses.
No, you have supplied incomplete information that tallies with my own – as far as it goes.
I have not done as you have suggested – read my article again until you understand it.
Nobody said the EU, as an organisation, makes money from nothing. It is the people who came here to work, and the conditions of EU membership, that have provided the extra cash. You have failed to understand the way the EU works; perhaps that is why you want to leave.
I have denied your claims that we make money out of being net contributors to the eu, you have not been able to provide a single piece of evidence to substantiate your claim that the eu makes money out of nothing to hand out to every nation in it.
I did not make any such claims.
And your denials add up to nothing because you have been unable to support them with facts.
This correspondence is over.
I do understand how the eu works, I do understand how the economics works, that is why I voted to leave.
That is a contradiction in terms.
What having a knowledge of how the eu works and how economics works is a contradiction in terms well certainly anyone who thinks the eu generates the money it distributes to the nations within it, although we all know it takes money from 7 nations gives them back less loses a load somewhere along line then subsidises the other 21, whose main exports appear to be people, we are now and alway have been a net contributor to this scheme.
You don’t have a knowledge of how the EU and economics works, though – hence the contradiction in terms. If you did, you would not be making such elementary mistakes.
Nobody said the EU generates money – that claim alone is enough to show you do not understand this debate.
Terms under which EU countries trade with each other do make it easier for them to profit, however – and the UK has done very well out of this, thank you very much.
Ah, but you don’t include those figures in your calculations, do you?
And you suggest that some member states’ main exports appear to be people. Those people are economic contributors to their new countries of residence.
Ah, but you don’t include those figures in your calculations either, do you?
Taking the above facts into account… No. You don’t have a knowledge of how the EU and economics work.
I do know how it works, and if it does not generate money where does this money you claim we get from it come from? The UK has done very badly out of this we have, as you well know, but will not admit, been a net contributer since day one. No one not even the most rabid remain campaigner denies this.
If you know how it works, then why do you keep commenting with non sequiturs?
Nobody has said the EU generates money.
It redistributes money, and it negotiates deals that ensure EU businesses make more money from trade.
The UK has done very well out of this and has been a net beneficiary.
Stop lying to us all – but, most importantly, stop lying to yourself.
Yes mike it redistributes the money so it is clear that those nations 21 of them that pay in the least, get subsidised by the 7 who pay in the most, which means 21 nations get more money than they put in the 7 net contributors essentially get nothing because they get less back than they pay in, there is no means by which all 28 can get more money out than they put in.
NO!
Please, stop re-interpreting what I’m saying. That is as bad as lying.
It is as I’ve told you, not as you’ve said here. The UK has been benefiting from more than £6 billion a year that it would not have had without being in the EU.
By any normal standards of decency in Politics there should at least be a second Referendum, or Leave to be suspended pending a full investigation into the Leave Campaign and the Electoral Fraud investigations and trials.
The fact that The Mayhem is proceeding with Its poisonous and destructive agenda shows me that The Mayhem is not in control of Its mind.
We were lied to by both sides of the argument, politicians can’t tell the truth because they don’t know what truth is.
Clutching at straws now, remain campaigners are forever going on about the the suggestion that the money being wasted on eu membership could be better spent and the NHS was an example, if remain truly believed the statement you have to ask why 48% of the people who voted actually voted to keep sending the money to the economic black hole in brussels but are now complaining, that even though it is going to where they wanted it to, they are moaning the same money has not been spent on the NHS yet.
They’re not.
The point is that the money will never go to the NHS because it isn’t currently going to the EU.
The UK currently benefits from its EU membership, by around £6 billion a year, if I recall correctly.
And I do: http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2016/06/14/eu-membership-a-nice-little-earner-for-the-uk/
The pint is they are the keep saying where is this money that promised if we left, because they don’t understand that we are still in and still paying out and they think they can smugly say “told you so” although they essentially voted to ensure we subsidise 21 nations to our own detriment. The UK is now and has been since day one a net contributor to the eu, we benefit from our trade outside the eu without wasting money on membership.
There’s nothing wrong with asking what will happen to the money we pay the EU, now that we are in the process of pulling out.
The fact is that, within the EU, the UK profited by more than £6 billion a year; we GAINED money.
Leavers like you don’t like that fact so you try to suppress it.
I take it even you read the nonsense that was posted to every single residence in the UK, it sdoesn’t take an awful high level of intellect to understand it was lies propaganda and paid for by us not the remain campaign does it.
It doesn’t take an awful high level of intellect to understand that you have an agenda to push and are never going to accept anything said in favour of remaining in the EU.
My only concession is that the government had no right to use taxpayers’ money on that leaflet. The information within it should have been fact-checked, as all the other information should have.
It doesn’t take a lot of intellect to understand that if you do not check the “facts that remain were claiming you will continue to believe the lies.
Barry, YOU haven’t checked the facts.
I have Mike and they are correct, unlike your rather ridiculous claim that we get money from the eu, when we are a net contributor.
CITATION PLEASE!
There you go – you don’t have any references. I do. You lose.
Your citation is as honest as any other piece of fiction.
No – it leads to a well-researched and accurate article.
So in fact, your comment is the work of fiction.
The eu funded BBC has mislead the populace about the eu it always has 4 people against one in its biased discussions in favour of the eu and refuses to accept any bias whatsoever pretending that it is fair to always outnumber leave campaigners on its news and current affairs programmes. Hardly what you could call a respectable body to supply actual facts about its paymasters.
Anyone who wants to see why this is nonsense merely needs to tune into the BBC’s Daily Politics. Its bias is towards having Tories outnumbering everyone else – where the EU is concerned it generally has Brexiteers in greater numbers or an even match. Watch it and see!
Leave and remain are not political parties they both have people form across the spectrum of the parties and trying to pretend it is a tory v labour and lib dems is clearly incorrect, or do you consider the likes of Ken Clarke as being a labour supporter? Where brexit is concerned it has a biased presenter, and two or three remain supporters against one or no leave supporters nothing to do with party politics whatsoever.
I wasn’t pretending it was Tory v Labour and do not understand why you are suggesting that.
Mike Sivier 28/03/17 10.49 pm “Anyone who wants to see why this is nonsense merely needs to tune into the BBC’s Daily Politics. Its bias is towards having Tories outnumbering everyone else – where the EU is concerned it generally has Brexiteers in greater numbers or an even match. Watch it and see!”
So you are claiming that Tories are brexiteers the truth is that there are leave campaigners across the political spectrum not just tories just as there are remain supporters across the political spectrum not just SNP Question time always had a pro eu presenter, not surprising he eu funds parts of the BBC with our tax money, and always had more remain supporters than leave campaigners on the panel I watch it all the time.
“Its bias is towards having Tories outnumbering everyone else – where the EU is concerned it generally has Brexiteers in greater numbers or an even match.”
This means Brexiteer Tories in greater numbers than Remain Tories, or an even match. It does not, and cannot, mean all Tories are Brexiteers. Nor does it mean that there aren’t Brexiteers in other parties. Haven’t you read This Site?
The BBC which is part funded directly form Brussels has always been pro eu it was still claiming a remain victory right up until the facts proved it wrong, since then it has been anti brexit and the presenters and panels always outnumber leave supporters and it is not uncommon for the presenters to talk over the leave side before they can finish what they are saying no one who watches these programmes could think or claim otherwise.
Yes they could. The evidence is there for anyone to see.
We have enough politicians trying to deny the evidence in front of us; we don’t need you doing the same thing, thanks.
And no one of Remainers lied? Ha, Ha!
That’s not what’s being argued, though.
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/01/dominic-cummings-brexit-referendum-won/# Somewhat different vision when you read it, Cummings isn’t so sure that brexit was won but more a cap eof lost by remain.
Sore losers. Leave won because people don’t trust the lies of the EU.
The people who read This Site are serious about their politics. Do you seriously believe any of them will accept your evidenceless comment in response to a clear admission that Vote Leave lied?
Well remain seem to be very happy to lie about leave and it gets believed, it wasn’t a clear admission whatsoever.
How do we know that? Because ‘Leave’ said so?
But ‘Leave’ are liars!
This is why it was so important to have every claim fact-checked.
Because remain lied and used taxpayers money to lie above and beyond what they were allowed to use.
The Tories used taxpayers’ money – not the Remain campaign as such. And who says they were lying in that leaflet? You? A supporter of the lying Vote Leave campaign?
You can see how this looks.
I think you will find that the man leading the remain campaign was the prime minister who used the governments, i.e. taxpayers money to send out a propaganda leaflet, that was never added to the remain spending. To attempt to say the tories who were largely involved in leave used this money is obtuse to say he least.
There was no single Remain campaign, as there was no single Leave campaign – look at Vote Leave, Leave.EU, Labour Leave, for example.
David Cameron led a Conservative Remain campaign until he realised that he was more of a liability than a help.
Do you mean when it became clear that no one believed a word he was saying after pretending he had got a good deal form the eu, when he went cap in hand asking for help and came home without his cap which they had retained?
No, I mean when it became clear that his campaigning for the Remain side in the run-up to the Referendum was harming that cause.
In my opinion, the so-called negotiations to which you refer were indeed a waste of time; he wanted the wrong things and he didn’t even get them. He wasn’t asking for help, though; he was demanding special treatment. Your claim that he came back without his metaphorical cap is of course another falsehood – a pretty phrase but not true. Please stop peddling lies.
If only this could invalidate the referendum result and stop the disastrous mess of Brexit!
Well the project fear lies and propaganda didn’t work at the time, and the Government using tax ayers money to send out what it called “true facts” was true lies and took the remain campaign spending above the amount of capital that was allowed.
Sorry – I switched off after I realised you were droning on about some fictitious ‘Project Fear’. I probably would have agreed with you about the government’s use of taxpayers’ money but your problem is you sink anything worthwhile in a mess of ‘Vote Leave’ silliness.
Sorry but that is the reason 48% of the voters voted remain because they switched off and just believed the lies and propaganda of remain, the vote remain stupidity that the eu will punish us, that we will go broke, that we will expel every foreigner of course was true facts?
Citations please.
What to point out that your non existent citations have been proven wrong?
I see. You cannot prove your claims. Therefore we can only conclude that your claims are false.
So unlike every other household in the uk you didn’t get the true lies propaganda leaflet the government spent taxpayers money on in excess of the amount allowed to campaign then?
I received the government’s leaflet. Whether it was as you describe it is entirely a matter of opinion, though – beyond what I have already agreed, that taxpayers’ money should not have been spent on it.
I see you can only pretend that you were unaware of what was going on at the time clearly you didn’t get the leaflet that was pushed through every door in the nation and not having had it didn’t read it or not having had it and not read it beleved every word in it.
I did have the leaflet, Barry. Please stop filling my comment columns with nonsense.
Well if you believed it it is no wonder you think you voted the correct way in trying to keep us in the crumbling edifice that is the corruption riddled democratically deficient eu money pit.
… in your opinion, based on very little indeed.