Doubts mount over plausibility of ‘nerve agent’ attack in Salisbury
Poisoned: Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia.
As evidence builds up, it seems increasingly less likely that a nerve agent was used to attack former double agent Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia in Salisbury.
For a start, a chemical nerve agent would have affected many more than three people if it had been released in a British town. But Salisbury NHS Trust emergency medical consultant Stephen Davies said only three people – the Skripals and Det Sgt Nick Bailey – had needed treatment.
Has there really been a nerve agent used in Salisbury? What is really going on? Stephen Davies consultant at Salisbury Hospital says NONE of the patients admitted were treated for nerve agent poisoning…..have the police interviewed Stephen Davies? pic.twitter.com/83AYm3ouAc
— Bevan Boy 💚 (@mac123_m) March 20, 2018
The Russian government has pointed out that, if a military-grade nerve agent had been used on anybody, “they would have just died”. This Writer has discussed the matter with a former member of the military who underwent chemical weapons training at Porton Down, and he confirmed this assessment.
But, guess what?
Nobody has died.
And the consultant at Salisbury District Hospital has said nobody there has been treated for exposure to any nerve agent.
CHIEF CONSULTANT at Salisbury stated that there are NO PATIENTS suffering with nerve gas poisoning in their hospital, so either the 3 have been spirited away or Secret Services/Govt of the UK colluding. Why? £3million 826,000 + for Tory coffers. G4S bodge job likely, https://t.co/H4Lo5BS4C5
— Carole Hawkins (@hawkins_carole) March 21, 2018
Even if a Novichok nerve agent was used, it seems unlikely that Russia was the only possible source. The whistle-blowing Russian chemist Vil Mirzayanov, published a book called State Secrets in 2008, in which the actual chemical formulae of the Novichok nerve agents were presented to an English-speaking audience.
He said it was unlikely that any chemical weapons stockpiled by the Soviet Union before its collapse could have been used as they would have decomposed after 27 years.
But he said a nerve agent could have been carried into the UK as a binary agent – two components, stored separately, which could then be mixed “shortly before attack”.
My source suggests that normal practice is to mix the components during an attack, in a way that ensures no harmful substance touches the attacker. He said it would be like launching a missile with two components that would cause an explosion when mixed; they only do so when the payload arrives at its destination.
So, as Evolve Politics states in an informed article here, it seems unlikely that Russia was the only state actor that could have synthesized and delivered a Novichok nerve agent – if that’s what was used. The article states:
Mirzayanov is sure the attack was carried out by Russia. However, he has given us enough information to be skeptical of that conclusion.
Firstly, he himself has admitted that the chemical structures of these weapons have been in the public domain for at least a decade. Indeed, he is the one who made them public.
Secondly, Mirzayanov admits that other countries have probably developed Novichoks for test purposes at least. His confidence that only Russia could have fine-tuned the agents seems misplaced – he has no idea what other countries have been up to for the last decade, or more.
Thus, based on information provided by the man who initially exposed the existence of Novichoks, we can already refute the Theresa May’s line that only Russia could have synthesised Novichoks.
If a Novichok was used, it could have been created by the UK government itself, for all we know. Remember the wording of the government’s statement – that the substance was “of a type developed by Russia”. This means it could have been created anywhere.
The evidence is beginning to mitigate against Russian involvement. This would mean Theresa May and her government have made a mistake of colossal proportions:
If Theresa May is forced to apologise to #Russia over her rash handling of the #spypoisoning incident, she will have to resign.
— Labour Insider (@Labour_Insider) March 20, 2018
Her refusal to provide a sample of the substance used on the Skripals to Russia has been justified by those who claimed (justifiably) that nobody in Russia’s position is likely to admit guilt. But what it she doesn’t have a nerve agent to provide?
Theresa May looks very guilty of a coverup over #spypoisoning as she refuses to give #Russia a sample of the nerve agent used.
— Labour Insider (@Labour_Insider) March 20, 2018
And nobody seems to be mentioning the fact that Mr Skripal was imprisoned by the Russian authorities for several years. If that country’s government had wanted to harm him, that would have been the time to do it.
Meanwhile, Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn – vilified by right-wing politicians and the press over his call for a measured response to the incident – appears increasingly vindicated.
The vilification of Jeremy Corbyn's measured response to the #SalisburyAttack is slowly turning to vindication. Hospital consultant says the poison was not a nerve agent. Samples have not yet be sent for analysis. Experts are openly sceptical. He deserves a public apology! #JC4PM pic.twitter.com/ES8IFJTirE
— Maxine Fisher #StarmerOut (@Sargent_Sellers) March 20, 2018
How much more evidence has yet to be made public? And what will it mean for the Conservative government’s credibility when it does?
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On the suggestion that those poisoned with the substance “would have just died”, the Guardian today has a story about the only other known victim of novichok, a Soviet scientist accidentally exposed, who took 6 years to die.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/22/andrei-zheleznyakov-soviet-scientist-poisoned-novichok
Hopefully the truth will emerge and expose the Tory bluster, lies and threats.
A comment I posted a couple of days ago to a ridiculous story in the Daily Mirror – still valid, I think, even if the nerve agent angle ends up being ruled out! >>>
Well, maybe McDonnell and the rest know things I don’t know – but what happened to the fact that quite apart from the Russian state and Russian freelancers (both operational and trading) the original Soviet stocks were apparently held in what is now Uzbekistan, not Russia? Uzbekistan hasn’t been known for human rights and liberalism in recent years! Besides which, these novichok things – NB there’s a whole family of them! – may have been initially formulated in Russia/the Soviet Union, but you can bet your life they’ve subsequently been developed in a number of other states – USA, China, Israel and one or two Arab states in the Middle East for a certainty. Probably the UK too. Would it REALLY surprise anyone if IS/Daesh had got its dirty hands on some of the merchandise as well? There are plenty of organisations, state and otherwise, that would love to cause mayhem. (Note – I purposely didn’t write MAYhem! Though it’s doing a nice job of diverting attention…) Yes, of course, maybe it IS Russia – but with VERY few exceptions I don’t trust anyone in politics, intelligence or the mainstream media (or the majority of the non-mainstream media, come to that – looking at you, internet).
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/03/the-deep-state-breaks-surface/
https://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2018/03/20/scl-a-very-british-coup/
https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2018/03/21/this-from-a-reader/
when I first saw/heard about this I immediately thought – sounds like “Spice”
Nerve agents to the left of us, pesky Ruscies to the right. Why is the press not holding the government to account? First of all, we have the government and establishment in a complete mess on the following. The Brexit talks are a disaster. The government is having to backtrack or drop proposals when the EU says no. They have lost every round of talks with the EU and the Tories are at each other’s throats over the issues. Secondly, the Tories are heading into local elections where it looks as though they will be getting a thrashing. Still bleeding from the GE, they need a distraction from how badly their policies are going down with the public. Thirdly, their full on assault on the welfare state is becoming more and more clear, even to those who seem not to be effected. Nurses, doctors, police, fire service, social care, local authorities, all are falling apart by being starved of funding. Of course, we know why, the Tories want to destroy the state, so everything is privatised and sold off to their pals. The NHS to the insurance companies and US Pharma corporations. The Police to G4S etc. Same with local authorities. Serco and the equivalent. Then comes the Panama Papers. Billions stashed abroad. Then Cambridge Analytica. Tories involved at every level. Worse, Tory peers and Tory doners in the Parent company and links right to the heart of the establishment, even the Royals. Huge amount of Russian money dribbling into party coffers. So they need scapegoats and something to deflect from their problems. Then we have Salisbury. Perfect. May goes fist bumping to a shipped in crowd and the press pack jump on Corbyn en masse, almost as if a starting pistol had been fired by the establishment. The BBC set him up on Newsnight, the Red Tories set up a quick early day motion. Patriotism, jingoism and nationalism is the duty for every man woman and child and up steps a string and stable PM to say so. Except it stinks. The whole thing stinks. First of all, May declared a nerve agent attack, even though it was impossible to analyse so quickly. The Porton Down chaps say they are being pressurised to make a certain case. The OPCW say it will take three weeks. The Soviet chemical weapon laboratory in which Mirzanyanov (who claimed to had developed the agent but is now living in a $1M house in the US) had worked was in Uzbekistan, not in Russia as Theresa May falsely claims. The laboratory was dismantled with the active help of the United States. Also, he claims his book, which is available for £9 is available on Amazon, contains the formula. Yet chemists have said it does not exist. Just before Xmas last year a fictional TV thriller Strike Back uses Novichok to poison someone. Then the crime scene. Firemen casually walking around the crime zone, no protective gear. The consultant at the hospital saying no-one in the unit suffering nerve agent, just three people with poisoning. Remember this agent is supposed to be so toxic it kills in seconds. No-one has died. No press pack anxiously waiting at the hospital for interviews. Boris immediately blaming the Russians and comparing Putin to Hitler. Then the sudden tsunami of abuse from the press and usual suspects on the one man actually asking for calm heads and evidence. Just step back. Apply your head to the wall once or twice. Then just ask yourself. Do you trust this government?
If Russia wanted the guy dead, how come he visited their Embassy regularly? Seems like he was still working ( considering his links to Orbis ).
Have you got a link to evidence? I wasn’t aware of this.
Another nail in the coffin for a useless and lying Theresa May’s
government. JC4PM now!!!
Just torys being torys! This is how they are! This is what they do! We really don’t need dangerous ‘clowns’ like this in 21st century politics: they ought to be excluded. I don’t understand why they aren’t. Isn’t there a ‘circus’ somewhere they can be packed off to? I don’t mean Westminster!
As soon as I heard about this case, the symptoms immediately made me think of botulism food poisoning. A good friend nearly died from botulism from tinned tuna, becoming ill nearly 48 hrs after eating it. She was in a coma for a week. Its a very serious, often fatal poisoning, and is non- infectious, and the botulism toxin disrupts nerve function.
As soon as the public was told of this attack we all believed it…that’s the power of the news media they’re the masters of inventing fake news, but lets look at the evidence so far a policeman that made a miraculous recovery but wont speak with the public – No testimonies from the Spripal’s loved ones – no leaked photo’s of them in the hospital so why no evidence if this story is true!!
All believed it? No we definitely did not!!!!
Alexander Letvincenko was without a doubt poisoned.On the orders of Putin.He was poisoned with polonium-210-induced acute radiation syndrome.It took three weeks before he died! It’s nonsense to take the blame away from Putin.I’m sure most of you who are now undecided are Corborn followers! Put our own politice behind you, and join the vast majority!
It would be better if you were to use your intelligence.
Without doubt ! You should read some ‘Wikileaks’ and stop being so gullible you naive fool.
No personal attacks, please!
I am simply waiting for the evidence. I am not in Salisbury, nor have I seen the Skripals so, I have but what I am told to go on. No evidence, thus far, has been presented in order to support the claim. This, to me, does not have the hallmarks of a state execution; it is far too sloppy; D.S. Bailey was not a target. The Russians have been doing this sort of thing for decades; it is highly unlikely that somebody other then the intended target would be affected by whatever method was chosen. Sascha £itvenenko was the only person affected. If this was, in fact, a state execution, I can only assume that D.S. Bailey’s symptoms were caused by something else, unrelated however there has been no evidence put forth so, we can only speculate. No, I will not join the majority of those who will shout condemnation with no evidence. Would you throw a man in jail without a trial? This is what is meant by the term “witch hunt,” because a simple accusation would see you condemned. £et us wait for the evidence, before we jump to conclusions, however justified we feel that they might be. The burden of proof is on the accuser, not the accused. “Right is right, even if nobody does it. Wrong is wrong, even if everybody is wrong about it.” G. K. Chesterton.
At the time it really felt like the UK had joined up with the US agencies in their anti Russia stance. If it ever comes out that the Russians were not responsible then the embarrassment for the Cons would be another mega fail having stirred up most of Europe with their alleged evidence. From the info it would seem this material is not totally related to Russia, as has been promoted so far, and now seems available in much wider spread of countries. I guess it will all come out at some point but just sad has to be dragged screaming from this particular government.
“Labour toughens its stance over Salisbury spy attack as John McDonnell points the finger at Putin” – headline in the Mirror (which is, as we all know, part of the proverbial mainstream media – and Trinity Mirror, the umbrella company, also owns the Daily Express, Sunday Express and Daily Star!). Anyway – I posted this comment to the Mirror article. Any reactions? >>>
Well, maybe McDonnell and the rest know things I don’t know – but what happened to the fact that quite apart from the Russian state and Russian freelancers (both operational and trading) the original Soviet stocks were apparently held in what is now Uzbekistan, not Russia? Uzbekistan hasn’t been known for human rights and liberalism in recent years! Besides which, these novichok things – NB there’s a whole family of them! – may have been initially formulated in Russia/the Soviet Union, but you can bet your life they’ve subsequently been developed in a number of other states – USA, China, Israel and one or two Arab states in the Middle East for a certainty. Probably the UK too. Would it REALLY surprise anyone if IS/Daesh had got its dirty hands on some of the merchandise as well? There are plenty of organisations, state and otherwise, that would love to cause mayhem. (Note – I purposely didn’t write MAYhem! Though it’s doing a nice job of diverting attention…) Yes, of course, maybe it IS Russia – but with VERY few exceptions I don’t trust anyone in politics, intelligence or the mainstream media (or the majority of the non-mainstream media, come to that – looking at you, internet).