This Site’s article on Keir Starmer’s support for Ukraine keeping its current borders has provoked a huge response on the social media – particularly Facebook – so here’s Vox Political‘s response to critics on Starmer/Ukraine.

I propose to go through the criticisms individually, picking out the arguments that require responses. Of course, everyone named below has a right of response – as long as they keep it civilised and fact-based; Vox Political has never tolerated personal abuse directed at anybody – the line I like to use it “play the ball, not the other person”.

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Let’s dive in. My responses are in bold:

Ross Panshaker Mckay
Starmer is bankrolled by no less than 12 Military Industrial Complex members, as demonstrated at the Labour Party’s annual conference. The £3bn of taxpayers money being used to cleanse ethnic Russian communities from the Donbass and Crimea is just as much a war crime as the genocide in Palestine.
The only war in the world a civilised society should support should be the CLASS WAR

You make a fair point about the deep ties between politics and military industries — and scrutiny of that is absolutely necessary. But calling support for Ukraine “cleansing” ethnic Russians is a distortion. The war started with Russia’s illegal invasion, not a NATO attack. Class War is valid — but so is opposing illegal military aggression.

Marianna Ludford
Vox Political you should be learn Russian and watch news from here cos nobody knows from people here what Ukrainians themselves think as referendum results been fake like here with Brexit but if you have someone who speaks Russian freely you can watch last news from here https://t.me/nevzorovtv/26502 or read them as it better than Daily Mail Daily Star or something like that

It’s valuable to hear many perspectives — including Russian ones. But trusting Russian-language media controlled or heavily influenced by the Kremlin risks trading one propaganda for another. We should seek independent Russian and Ukrainian voices, not just those echoing state narratives.

Scott Marriott
Vox Political why were there hundreds of cars burnt out on the roads leading out of Mariupol back towards Ukraine, Vox Not Geopolitical? Why were Ukrainian artillery positions entrenched next to flats, Vox Not Geopolitical? Why did the Azovs take their own people hostage in that steel plant when they were losing, Vox Not Geopolitical? Why were people from Mariupol telling journalists that the shells came from the west, Vox Not Geopolitical?

War crimes and atrocities need full investigation on both sides. However, independent observers (like UN missions) documented far more systemic attacks by Russian forces, including mass bombardment of civilian areas. That doesn’t excuse Ukrainian missteps — but pretending Ukraine alone is to blame ignores the reality of Russia’s full-scale invasion.

Scott Marriott
Vox Political “Russian news” is banned here for some reason, same reason Ukraine is using our drones to kill journalists, like how the IDF did the same in Gaza. Our government doesn’t like the truth, doesn’t want us knowing the truth as they’d all be in prison..

There are troubling restrictions on free media, both in Russia and increasingly in the West. Banning Russian outlets isn’t always the right response — but Russian state media isn’t “truth,” either. It’s just their propaganda machine. We need better independent journalism everywhere, not just lifting bans blindly.

Noddy Mac
Scott Marriott has the intellectual insight to determine that it was the *checks notes* Ukrainians who committed those crimes against humanity… and not, say, the Russian army, who shelled entire cities into rubble, bombed maternity wards, and flattened Mariupol into a wasteland.
Truly groundbreaking stuff.

Spot on. Russia’s destruction of Mariupol was systematic and massive, not a byproduct of Ukrainian false flags. Blaming the victims for defending their cities is morally backward.

Scott Marriott
Noddy Mac you’re trying to be comedic about *checks notes* the fact that Ukraine executed false flag attacks against it’s own people to blame Russia and prolong the war, even after explaining the reason why. The Azovs who are firing the NATO artillery and shells into eastern Ukrainian villages, towns and cities are far-right ultranationalists, they see the Russian-speaking eastern Ukrainians as less than vermin despite being fellow Ukrainians, they had no issue slaughtering people, in fact they revelled in it.
Like I said, Russia arrived to a desolated Mariupol laced with mines and sniper and AT nests in residential buildings with civilians trapped inside, they hurried in to try to save those people knowing full well they were running blindly into traps. Russia ran more humanitarian aid and rescue runs than combat runs in Mariupol.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yVviM_g3eU

The Azov battalion’s ultranationalism is real and concerning. But this doesn’t turn Russia into saviours. Bombing cities to rubble isn’t “saving” anyone. Selectively criticizing Ukraine’s extremists while excusing Russian atrocities is hypocrisy.

Matt Day
Vox Political scot Marriott is right , the west started that war and is desperate to prolong it whilst Zelensky launders billions of taxpayers money

Oversimplified. Western policy mistakes (especially post-2014) helped create the conditions, but Russia chose invasion. Zelensky may have corruption issues (Ukraine always has), but that doesn’t justify Russian aggression or massacres of civilians.

Noddy Mac
Scott Marriott It’s important to criticise UK and US foreign policy, especially where it enables suffering in Gaza or elsewhere, but replacing one-sided Western narratives with one-sided Russian ones doesn’t bring us closer to the truth.
Framing Russia as a benevolent protector in Ukraine is misleading. Russia didn’t intervene to save civilians, it invaded a sovereign country, launched missile strikes on residential areas, and has caused mass civilian deaths. Documented war crimes, forced deportations, and the flattening of cities like Mariupol show that the Kremlin isn’t preserving life, it’s pursuing strategic control.
The 2014 events in Ukraine were messy, yes, but to call it a CIA coup erases the millions of Ukrainians who protested corrupt leadership and demanded closer ties to Europe. Russia responded not with diplomacy but by seizing Crimea and arming separatists in Donetsk and Luhansk, igniting a war that they helped fuel.
The claim that Donbas residents were slaughtered by Ukraine for speaking Russian ignores that this was a civil war with armed separatists, foreign fighters, and misinformation flying from both sides. Civilians suffered, but Russia’s involvement made things worse, not better.
Calling what Ukraine is doing “terrorism” while excusing Russia’s full-scale invasion is hypocritical. Both sides deserve scrutiny, but only one crossed a border with tanks and missiles in 2022.
Being critical of NATO and Starmer is fair. Pretending Putin is fighting a just war is not.

Completely agree. Real anti-imperialism means opposing all imperialism — US, NATO, and Russian.

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Scott Marriott
Marianna Ludford I’m an Englishman and a left-wing Socialist, I could care less about him and his oligarchs. Would you prefer I was some overpaid shill in a suit, in a snazzy studio trying to mislead you for Rupert Murdoch? Would that be more official and credible for you? I’ve been consistently on the right side of history my entire adult life after the DWP tried to kill me and instead radicalised me against our criminal government. I don’t support Russia, and certainly not that right-wing oligarch-puppet. All I care about is the truth and the people caught in the middle.
The Ukrainians whether western or eastern are trapped in a proxy war and an economic war. NATO wants them to die fighting, the IMF and Wall Street want them to work themselves to death while taking the natural resources beneath their feet and yeah, Russia wants the Russian-speaking territories, maybe even for the same reasons, who knows, if they did care about preserving Human life there they’d have stepped in in 2014 right? Not wait 8 years while Ukraine slaughtered them for seceding. Both Ukraine and Russia are bad, but the UK and US governments, arms manufacturers and corporations are the worst and it is all their fault.

It’s true the West has blood on its hands — Iraq being a prime example. But Russia’s actions in Ukraine are not “less bad” because the West is guilty elsewhere. Two wrongs don’t make a right.

Pat Campbell
I think the major problem here and is the same paradox with the slaughter in Gaza is not looking at the whole picture. There is no context in either situation, which is similar because that is how the politicians want us to view these conflicts ( or any conflict).
As for the conflict in Ukraine we are only shown the conflict from the moment that Russia became physically involved. We are told by the politicians that we must unquestioningly support Ukraine. Yet the start point was not the invasion by Russia but the civil war and coup that predated it. What were the causes? Who caused it? Why? Who gains? All questions that are avoided.
It is the same position with Gaza, the media only focus on October the 7 onwards and the bias towards Israel is a definite action. Yet we never see the media focus attention on the historical context starting with British involvement with the Balfour Declaration onwards.
This deliberate misinformation of having no context or an unquestioning, uncritical support then leads me to not trust the political or there media as being deliberately misleading.
Britains involvement in both conflicts spending billions of pounds in Ukraine risking a broader more destructive conflict while just beating the drum for war in our name is a disgrace. The same for the genocide in Gaza, the total political and logistical support for the Israeli government then not only implicates our government in that genocide but is as citizens as well because it is being done in our name and support.
What is more worrying is the crackdowns on anyone who does not toe the political position in both conflicts, almost as if we the people are to be seen and not heard, while the political just get on with what they want to do.
It is not wrong to question our own government in whatever it does, what is totally out of order is for that government to rule as it wants or what any foreign government wants with no oversight by the people whatsoever

Absolutely. Lack of context feeds manipulation. Historical roots — 2014 coup, Russian fears of NATO — must be discussed, not erased. But that context doesn’t excuse current invasions or war crimes.

Jonny Block
Oh dear, this page has gone establishment.

Disagreeing with a narrative doesn’t automatically make one “establishment.” Genuine critique can come from many directions.

Chris Led
Wow..
All the western narrative justifications
Ukraine has been biden/nulands lil pet project for a long time. Maybe address the hunter biden laptop/russiagate lies/ biden bragging about holding back a Billion in funding unless ukr sacked the prosecutor investigating his sons activity in ukr. While working for a huge ukr gas company.
Or look into the ukr diaspora after ww2 Canada etc
Ukr under biden has been a massive money laundering scheme for the Military and establishment and politicians, bringing us to the brink of nuclear annihilation. Starmer is basically sabre rattling for a war he can NEVER win.
And making the UK target No 1 for the first nukes.
Do u realise how advanced russias missile defence is.. or how powerful their response will be if their nuclear doctrin is crossed.
Russia won’t strike first, but will wipe us out before our american owned nukes cross the channel.
Starmer just wants on the money laundry bandwagon, justify rebuilding the uk Military at tax payers expense to boost the economy etc
And to seem powerful.
Starmer is also bought and paid for. Maybe address GAZA and his zionist handlers too, why do they have a special interest in ukr?
The uk fully supported the second illegal invasion of Iraq… this is no different.
The west and NATO stuck their nose where it didn’t belong. And history will not look favorably on this article/pro Starmer propaganda piece.
F starmer, the toxic neoliberals will never get my vote
Peace to the Donbas,
Kiev needs to leave the Donbas asap and hold elections.
I’d recommend anyone with an interest in learning more about this conflict google “The Duran” or “Scott Ritter” or “Brian Berletic”.. they might provide a bit more balance to your research beyond the bbc and cnn propaganda
Russia is going slow, because they are liberating a people they view as brothers/sisters. Russia is also deliberatly running down NATOs millitary equipment and threat capacity.
Trump realises this conflict is bankrupting america and nato for very little gain.. but he has no way out without saving face. Without america and nato interference, there is no war.
Kiev is bombing the donbas citizens because they want the mineral rich donbas land, but not the ethnic russian people living there.
Maybe also look into all the american mega corporations buying up ukr land..monsanto/Blackrock etc
Article is naive at best, but more likely toxic neoliberal propaganda

Corruption involving Western elites (like Hunter Biden) should be investigated fully. But again, corruption doesn’t justify foreign invasions or war crimes. Russia’s nuclear posture is dangerous too — both sides need de-escalation, not blind loyalty.

Polly Rodwell
I usually find your posts interesting and apt but in this case, I really do think you’re taking a wrong turning. You seem to be totally ignoring the historical context here and also at risk of cheerleading for a larger conflict that may escalate out of anyone’s control. So far, Russia has been remarkably patient with interference from the west, ranging from ‘advisers’ in Ukraine to actual planning and training Ukrainian troops for military actions. In the main, these actions have been a disaster for Ukraine (the 2023 summer offensive, the assault on the nuclear power plant and the river crossing to prepare for an assault on Sevastopol) and have led to massive loss of lives on the Ukrainian side.
Surely, it is now time to recognise that Russia has won and that Crimea and the 4 oblasts are now permanently part of Russia.
It didn’t need to be thus. And again, the UK must accept part of the blame for preventing the Istanbul peace agreement

Russia being “patient” is debatable, given constant covert action. Crimea’s annexation was illegal under international law, regardless of public opinion there under occupation.

Polly Rodwell
Vox Political it does address them but I take issue with a number of your points. I suppose we have to agree to disagree, although I would be very happy to go through your points one by one if you like

Respectful approach. Dialogue, not shouting matches, moves debates forward.

Guy Gingell
Polly Rodwell Putin has been patient with the West? Are constant cyber attacks on our hospitals and interference in our democracies a manifestation of this patience?

Guy Gingell
Polly Rodwell
https://www.aha.org/…/2024-11-20-doj-russian-national…
https://www.techtarget.com/…/US-calls-out-Russia-for…
https://www.yahoo.com/…/pro-russian-hackers-claim…
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cxee7317kgmo.amp

Confirmed: Russia is behind many cyberattacks globally. Pretending they’re just “rogue hackers” is naive.

Polly Rodwell
Guy Gingell Russians or Russia? The worst that can be said is that some hackers operate out of Russia and the Russian government isn’t active enough in shutting them down. Even these articles don’t claim this is sanctioned by the Russian government. And ‘Russiagate’ in the 2016 US elections turns out to be nothing of the sort and originated in a wheeze by Hillary Clinton’s campaign office

Some attacks likely aren’t directly ordered by the Kremlin — but their tolerance and passive support is well documented.

Gareth Phillips
Polly Rodwell Are you implying that Putin is the good guy, and we should let him have Ukraine? If so, what’s next for him? These are dangerous times for Europe and the UK. I’m no fan of Starmer, bit I believe he’s doing the right thing here, for once

Exactly. Criticizing NATO doesn’t mean siding with Putin’s authoritarian regime.

Jeff Suggie
look at the history of Crimea in the past did it ever belong to Ukraine Only a third of the people living there are Ukrainian The majority are Russian and the rest are Tatars It was once part of the ottoman empire The donbas was given to Ukraine by Stalin most of the people living there speak Russian The big carrots are the minerals that are in the ground and that basically in my opinion that is what its all about they don’t care how many die

True, Crimea has a complicated demographic history. But annexation by force still violates international law.

Steve Brown
Ignore the facts…. continue to believe NATO…the government salutes your hard propaganda work !

NATO has lied before (e.g., Iraq), but that doesn’t automatically mean every anti-NATO claim is true either.

Yannis Xamonakis
So starmer lied about everything except who is to blame for Ukraine. What makes you think he’s telling the truth now?

Scepticism of politicians is healthy. Blind faith is dangerous. Every claim deserves independent verification, not loyalty to leaders.

Yannis Xamonakis
Vox Political ah, but it has. what you think of as ‘right’ others might think as wrong or immoral. Some people think that it’s ‘right’ to to cut benefits for the disabled or to support blanket bombing random civilians in the name of self defence or to invade countries because it is rumoured that they may have wmd s. Believing that you are right is one thing. Making political decisions that affect the lives of millions of people is anther. If it is just your opinion why should it have any more validity than anybody else’s opinion? A politician who is prone to misinform is likely to be at it again. There is a good possibility that the public is been misled once again to think that the government’s decisions and not just the UK governments, are as you say right and we are on the right side of history. History has the habit of exposing untruths. So we’ll see.

Good point. “Right” in politics is often decided decades later by who writes the history books.

Gari Owen
Starmer is not right. Crimea voted to leave Ukraine. Its been Russian since Catherine the great got if from the Ottoman empire in 1783. It has a Russian population, and the Russian Black sea fleet is stationed there. It will never be Ukranian again period. Starmer need to go go.

History is complicated, but modern borders are based on 1991 agreements. Russia agreed to recognize Ukraine’s sovereignty back then.

Mo Allman
Gari Owen quite correct, the history we aren’t allowed to mention, Just as we aren’t allowed to mention the American backed coup which ousted an elected leader and replaced him with a far right coup. Or that opposition media is banned in Ukraine, elections cancelled, the army has openly neo nazi battalions, ethnic Russian were under attack in the country, or the east of Ukraine and the Crimea have democratically voted to either be independent or part of Russia. Just like in Israel/Palestine, we aren’t allowed to know the truth, only western propaganda which it is so sad even supposedly left wing commentators are happy to echo (or scared not to).

There was far-right involvement in 2014, but calling the entire Maidan uprising a Nazi coup is Kremlin propaganda. It was a mass popular movement with diverse political currents.

Claudia Ridley
Mo Allman Elections weren’t cancelled – they are suspended due to the country being at war and it not being possible for most citizens to vote whilst the war continues.

Correct. Elections in wartime are problematic everywhere — but suspension must be temporary, not permanent dictatorship.

Gari Owen
Claudia Ridley opposition parties banned, alternative media banned, the Russian language banned, political opponents imprisoned, an American journalist tortured to death. So much for democracy in ukraine. There is no provision for a president to extend his term only for parliament. The constitional remedy is for the speaker of the house acts as de facto interim president not the comedian. Zelinski is illegitimate, unpopular and a criminal dictator with zero mandate from the 50% of the population still left in the country. He will never hold an election because he knows what will happen to him when the people are allowed to speak. He will be living in a billion dollar mansion in Italy after this is over or he’ll go the same way as Mussolini

Zelenskyy has taken worrying steps (media bans, opposition restrictions), but he’s still far from a “criminal dictator” in a historical sense.

Marianna Ludford
Gari Owen have you watched at least one video from Crimea at their original language it’s means Russian? Stop telling crap here as everyone who probably more educated can find this fact below ⬇️
In 1954, the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the Soviet Union transferred the Crimean Oblast from the Russian SFSR to the Ukrainian SSR. The territory had been recognized within the Soviet Union as having “close ties” to the Ukrainian SSR, and the transfer commemorated the Union of Russia and Ukraine Tercentenary.
BTW referendum results been fake so Crimea it’s Ukraine 🇺🇦 nothing to do with Russia 🇷🇺 PaRussia you should learn Russian watch proper videos https://t.me/nevzorovtv/26502 instead of reading The Independent The Mirror or Daily Mail

Accurate — the 2014 referendum was under foreign military occupation, making it invalid under international law.

Claudia Ridley
Gari Owen In that case maybe the USA should be given back to the native americans? No, I guess that wouldn’t suit you either!

Funny analogy, but modern international law requires respecting current sovereignty agreements. Otherwise, chaos.

Lester Barry
Gari Owen Crimea’s status has changed multiple times since then. It was transferred to the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic in 1954 during the Soviet era. After the dissolution of the USSR, Crimea became part of an independent Ukraine. In 2014, following a controversial referendum, Russia annexed Crimea, a move that’s been widely disputed and condemned internationally.
At the time of the vote, Russian military forces were present in Crimea, which many argued created an atmosphere of coercion.
The referendum did not include an option for Crimea to maintain its status as part of Ukraine. Instead, voters could only choose between joining Russia or restoring Crimea’s 1992 constitution, which granted it greater autonomy.
The referendum was conducted without the approval of the Ukrainian government, violating Ukraine’s constitution. Additionally, it was deemed illegal under international law, which respects the territorial integrity of states.

Yes — independent reports confirm the “referendum” happened under coercive military conditions.

John Owen
Lester Barry The vote in Crimea, was due to the large number of Russians who were attracted there by the economic prosperity there. A similar result happened in Wales with the voting over Devolution. The large majority of the anti Devolution vote was bt people who consideed themselves to be Englaih.

Not a direct parallel. Crimea’s situation was heavily militarized, not just demographic shift.

Joe Farrell
Starmer is not right at all . Have a word with yourself and stop drinking the kool aid.

Maybe not. But that has to be proven with argument, not just asserted.

Joe Farrell
Vox Political Yes I have, and how hypocritical it is. Starmer can not tell anyone about international law etc when he’s upto his neck in genocide. Starmer and the EU want to prolong this war for economic gain, there would not be any war if Western imperialism had stuck to its agreement. Nato has been encroaching more and more and the way ethnic Russians were being treated Russia had to intervene as for Crimea read the history. VOX POLITICAL has been on the wrong side of a few issues lately and this is why I won’t be following your hypocritical posts. I also do not like Trump or any US government but he’s right about UKraine not Starmer. You will be waving Israeli flags next and calling for Netanyahu for the Nobel peace prize. Blairite!!

You raise valid criticisms about NATO expansion and Western hypocrisy — those deserve serious scrutiny. But Russia’s brutal invasion and mass killings can’t be justified by Western imperialism either. Two wrongs don’t cancel each other. Ukraine isn’t perfect, Starmer isn’t principled — but excusing Russia’s war crimes because the West sucks is a moral dead end. And if you’ve ever read any of Vox Political in the past, you should know that I am absolutely not a Blairite!

Ruth Timperley
I actually can’t believe you’re praising Starmer for putting ‘principle over expediency’ He hasn’t got any principles. He’s supporting a Genocide in Palestine. You can’t cherry pick whether you have a moral compass. If Starmer is supporting Ukraine it will either be because he thinks there is a political gain for him, or because someone has his arm up his back. He is a spineless, duplicitous, morally bankrupt, waste of space.

Completely fair to call out Starmer’s selective morality, especially over Gaza. Supporting Ukraine against invasion doesn’t erase his enabling of other atrocities. A broken compass doesn’t point true even when it accidentally faces north. But then, I didn’t say Starmer was right about everything – did I? I only stated that Starmer is right in his current position about this.

Mike Scott-ram
Trump is a dangerous opportunistic idiot.His mind is too feeble to grasp the realities of the situation, and anyone who claims he is a Russian asset has a good point, given his behaviour.

Agreed. Trump’s reckless ignorance around Ukraine, NATO, and Russia risks global destabilization. He’s not a peace representative — he’s an agent of chaos.

Tony Brookes
Starmer isn’t right on the Ukraine just as he isn’t right on Palestine. A war mongering Zionist who will lead this country into conflict with Russia. Hypocrite.

Starmer’s foreign policy is heavily pro-establishment and pro-military — no doubt about it. Supporting endless arms shipments without pushing hard for negotiations fuels the bloodshed.

Richard Chamberlain
Neither are right ffs!

Sometimes the truth is ugly: both sides can be wrong in different ways. Critique needs to be consistent, not team-based.

What I find most interesting are the overarching themes, which can be broken down as follows:

• It’s not a simple pro-Russia vs pro-Ukraine split.

• Deep distrust of media and government is very strong across all sides – but many people claim to “support the truth” or “support civilians,” according to interpretations of truth that are wildly different depending on what media they trust (BBC vs Telegram, CNN vs Duran, etc).

• “Class war” narrative: Some people think ordinary people everywhere are being crushed by elites manipulating conflicts for profit.

• Conspiracy theory blending: Especially when people mention WEF, Zionists, Biden’s laptop, BlackRock, etc., suggesting a global “elite control” idea beyond just Ukraine.

• And there is huge anger at Keir Starmer across all sides — even among those who back Ukraine, many don’t trust him personally.

If Starmer were wise, he would take note of this anger (not that I think he pays any attention to a gutter-politics site like Vox Political – heaven forbid).

But I don’t think he is. And his basic setting as a “weathervane” rather than a “signpost” (according to Tony Benn’s famous comment) means it will be interesting to see how long he maintains his current position on Ukraine.

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