Sign the petition to debate a vote of no confidence in Iain Duncan Smith

Here’s a government e-petition worth signing. This Writer already has – how about joining in?

For denying the existence of, and refusing to publish data on the deaths of claimants of incapacity benefit and employment and support allowance between November 2011 and May 2014. This is despite the rulings of the Information Commissioner and public pressure resulting in a 200,000 strong petition.

Source: To debate a vote of no confidence in DWP secretary Ian Duncan Smith – Petitions

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35 thoughts on “Sign the petition to debate a vote of no confidence in Iain Duncan Smith

  1. Nicky Ray

    We should be getting a public enquiry…..how can the government treat people like this…

  2. hayfords

    I have every confidence that he is doing a good job.

    Don’t forget that such petitions only merit consideration and do not guarantee a debate. It is a bit pointless as he would wein the vote.

    IDS is a good guy. I know the left don’t like him, but he has done excellent things. Take a look at the Centre for Social Justice

    http://www.centreforsocialjustice.org.uk/

    He set this up while Labour were in power. It is a think tank to improve social justice. His intentions are good, but you may not like his methods. I have had some contact with the Centre and it has done some excellent work in overcoming poverty.

    1. Mike Sivier Post author

      The man has the blood of thousands, if not tens or hundreds of thousands, on his hands. If you think that he’s “a good guy”, your judgement is seriously impaired.
      What you’ve said here undermines any other opinion you may wish to present.

    2. Tony Dean

      hayfords, you must either be a Troll or you really don’t know how many deaths IDS is responsible for. IDS has put more disabled people into coffins than he has found work.

    3. john kettle

      hayfords, you’ve hit the nail on the head. The CSJ is a right wing think tank, set up by right wingers, for right wingers, to provide (independently from the truth where necessary) what right wingers want to hear.
      If you’re not trying to be deliberately misleading then provide us with a link to an independent body for corroboration.

    4. wildswimmerpete

      @hayfords
      George Smith (to use his detested birthname) is a vainglorious, bullying sociopath who scuttles like an insect out of the Chamber to avoid his being questioned over his policies. I’m looking forward to Jeremy Corbyn and Dennis Skinner wiping the floor with him.

    5. Joanna

      What planet are you from hayford or are you just trying to cause some sort of controversy either way you are an idiot!! the only thing he has done is feather his own nest with the blood of others and wrapping it all up in religion and LIES

  3. hayfords

    The cutting of benefits is a complex issue. Under the last Labour government benefits spiralled out of control. Working tax benefits in particular are a disaster. The high rate allows employers to pay lower wages. The solution is to raise minimum wages as the tax benefit falls.

    Labour raised benefits across the board. Now what was the position before they did that? Were there large numbers (evidence lacking anyway) dying before the benefits were raised? All that is happening is that benefits are returning to pre Blair/Brown era. You may not like it but that is what is occurring.

    People like IDS are just as interested in the welfare of people as anyone else. As I said look at the Centre for Social Justice, which was the brainchild of IDS. The difference is the means the government is using is not ideologically the same as the left agenda.

    I would also like to see the death rate relating to benefits and cuts. It would help the discussion to see if the rate compared to the general population had increased or decreased and by how much. It is difficult to be sure without information as without it it is just heresay.

    There is a saying that may be appropriate.

    ‘Hard cases make bad laws’.

    1. Mike Sivier Post author

      Benefits did not go out of control under the last Labour government.
      Working tax credits were only ever a stop-gap solution, and raising wages to an amount at which people can live is indeed a better way – but this must happen before tax credits drop, not after. Otherwise, how are people supposed to bridge the income gap that is created?
      Benefits are not returning to the level they were before Blair and Brown. Check your facts before posting. They have been dropping, in relation to average incomes, since your beloved Margaret Thatcher got into office. They are currently around 2/3 of what they should be, had the comparative levels stayed the same. You clearly don’t like it, because otherwise you wouldn’t be making up lies about it.
      Iain Duncan Smith isn’t interested in the welfare of anybody who isn’t in the one per cent. The CSJ is a shopfront for some of the worst neoliberal gibberish I’ve ever heard – and I’ve heard some tripe from Tories, believe you me!
      I notice you want to see a death rate as a comparison with the general population. Is that because your Tory paymasters have told you to say this? We need the actual number of deaths.
      That’s an interesting saying at the end – shame I’ve never heard of it. Have you ever heard of this one: “Tories make bad governments”?

      1. hayfords

        The numbers of people who have died while on benefits do not tell you much and I can imagine why the government is loath to release them as they would be misused. The raw numbers mean nothing. It it was 500 then who would know if this was high or low. The only way to make statistical sense is to look at deaths per thousand say before and after benefits were cut. You would then need to compare that to the general population to see if any changes were significant. The proportion is always going to change from time to time. The difficult part is to tell if the changes are significant and attributable to a cause.

      2. Mike Sivier Post author

        The numbers of people who have died while on benefits will reveal a great deal.
        You are simply spouting a line that has been fed to you by your Tory masters.

    2. john kettle

      hayfords said –
      The solution is to raise minimum wages as the tax benefit falls.

      No, no and no.
      The solution is a statutory increase in the NMW, not some mealy mouthed soundbite, and then taper off tax credits pro-rata.
      IDS, the man that they hid away for months before the last election, and who was too afraid to turn up for his own hustings.
      Some role model you have, and that’s without delving into his faux-qualifications and various name changes……..oh, and his armed bodyguards when faced with a few wheelchair bound protestors and hiding in linen baskets. Some man eh?

    3. Tony Dean

      Hayfords you really cannot have any perception how offensive you are being. I have never been a member of, or a supporter of any political party.
      Iain Duncan Smith should be in court charged with multiple cases of manslaughter.
      There is now a massive hole in the DWP datasets with many thousands of dead people in it.
      Despite the desperate attempts to doctor the off flows due to death before they are released, the current government is not computer literate enough to realise the death rates can be calculated by data mining the datasets that are routinely and regularly published.
      Those who are found “fit for work” at a “Work Capability Assessment” who appeal and die before an appeal date are dying at rate 50 times that for the general working age population.
      It does not take a mathematician with the intellect of Euler to work out that something is very badly wrong with a death rate that high.
      If your GP was declaring patients fit for work and they died at that rate the police would be all over them before you could say Shipman.
      If I and others are so wrong about that and other benefit off flows due to death please explain why the DWP, IDS and the government are prevaricating about releasing the statistics which could prove us all wrong.
      As for historical off flows due to death, they were published routinely and regularly by the DWP and its predecessor.
      There can be no direct comparison between IB and ESA, because IB was one benefit and ESA is two benefits.

      1. micheal freshney

        “Iain Duncan Smith should be in court charged with multiple cases of manslaughter.”

        I don’t think so, Murder should be the Charge, He knew exactly what he was Doing.

  4. micheal freshney

    Hayfords, It Appears that YOU and YOUR tory mates have Absolutely NO CONCEPT of being A Human Being. Shame on you.

  5. hayfords

    The government’s policies do seem popular.

    Friday’s monthly Comres poll shows

    CON 40%, LAB 28% (LDEM 7%, UKIP 10%, GRN 5% which are pretty much at their previous levels)

    Even allowing for stastical sampling error which would be around 2%, that is quite a vote of confidence for the government. Recent polls have shown the Conservatives increasing their lead week on week.

    Previous polls have shown solid support for cutting benefits.

    1. Mike Sivier Post author

      But all polls suffer from the choice of people they ask – as Tories like yourself have protested often enough when the polls have gone against them.
      Also, of course, your opinion of Iain Duncan Smith taints everything you say.

    2. Tony Dean

      The “support” for cutting benefits is because of over 20 years of blatant lies and propaganda the general public has been fed.
      Were the public to be told the truth it would not just be Iain Duncan Smith who needs armed guards 24/7/365.
      Hayford’s you are either blatant Troll or you really do not know the current government is carrying out a merciless attack on the already poor, and the disabled.
      This is causing an ever increasing number of deaths, which is why the government and IDS are so reluctant to have the death stats in the form of X/1000/annum published as used to happen up until three years ago.

      1. Mike Sivier Post author

        He’s a Tory troll, Tony – if not a sockpuppet. I’m sure somebody is telling him what to say.

      2. Tony Dean

        I think he is IDS posting under a pseudonym.
        Anyone who is that ignorant about the number of deaths IDS is responsible for can only be IDS.

  6. Lynn Dye

    Mike was obviously right when he said, “What you’ve said here undermines any other opinion you may wish to present”, because having read Hayfords’ first comment, I didn’t bother reading any more…

  7. hayfords

    It is just the same as saying that your anti IDS stance colours everything you say. I have a different opinion regarding the benefit cuts and my view is just as valid. I expect that over the course of this parliament we will see further cuts. The benefits are meant as a safety net and not as a lifestyle. There is a false perception that being on benefits should not be tough.

    It is only right that people are now being made to justify their benefits. The process is not perfect but improving. Benefits are a right but only if the recipient qualifies. No amount of whingeing is going to stop the path of this The process is part of rebalancing the economy.

    1. Mike Sivier Post author

      No, it isn’t the same at all – accusations against Iain Duncan Smith are all closely related to the facts so it would be more accurate to say that anti-RTU (we call him Returned to Unit here, in deference to his abysmal Army career – or simply the Gentleman Ranker) comments are supported by the facts.
      Your view is not valid as you have said you think Iain Duncan Smith is “good”.
      Your comment that benefits should be a safety net and not a lifestyle choice comes straight from Conservative Central HQ, bypassing reality along the way. As is the claim that people should be made to justify their benefits – that is a new complication, designed by the Conservatives to further impoverish the already-poor and drive them to despair and suicide.
      You’re right that whingeing won’t stop it. That’s why those of us who oppose it rely on factual evidence and constructive argument.
      The process has nothing to do with rebalancing the economy as the amounts involved are irrelevant to that mission. Conservative policy has never had anything to do with economic improvement in any case. The economy hit rock-bottom in 2013 and started to improve as part of the natural economic cycle. Conservative policy had nothing whatsoever to do with it.

  8. wildswimmerpete

    @hayfords
    It has obviously escaped your attention that this is a left-wing blog where Conservative and other right-wing views aren’t welcome. So why do you persist posting here, other a desire to troll? Don’t you think you would be really better off following Guido Fawkes’ hard-right “Order, Order” blog?

    1. Mike Sivier Post author

      I don’t mind opposing views being posted here – it provides an opportunity for the rest of us to sharpen our wits and improve our base of knowledge with which to defeat those other arguments. Obviously, when a Tory (or whoever) has to rely on obscure examples in order to prove a point, they’re on a hiding to nothing, but it helps us to know that they’re scraping the barrel.

  9. foggy

    hayfords said: It is only right that people are now being made to justify their benefits. The process is not perfect but improving

    NO IT IS NOT !! The benefits system is a farce and a complete and utter minefield for a claimant to got through, of which fails far too many !

    At the moment, I know someone who has been called in for no less than 6 interviews with the DWP within 5 months !! This claimant is in the Support group for physical and severe mental health problems for goodness sake so, hayfords, do NOT spout such unsupported piffle that the system is improving whilst people like myself know it is NOT !!

    How many benefit claimants have you personally met that can say ‘yes, Iain Duncan Smith saved me, his improvements on benefit policies are the mutts nuts and I’m feeling much better now’ ????? Or do you just read the daily fail, consume all their spite and bile before heading off to conservative home for a second helping of benefit bashing ?

    I’m pretty damn sure Stephanie Botrill didn’t write ‘thank you Iain Duncan Smith’ in her suicide letter before she threw herself in front of an artic lorry !

  10. mrmarcpc

    Signed it, more people should too, he, like all the Tory party has blood on his hands and will have much more before the five years are through, hayfords, you’re a moron!

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