Former PM picks fight with the SNP; SNP defends itself with lies

Hosie: Lies.

Hosie: Lies.

Say what you like about Gordon Brown, you have to give him a certain amount of credit for standing his ground.

Despite a constant campaign of vilification against him by the Scottish National Party and its supporters, he stood up and denounced them for failing the Scottish people yesterday.

In a speech in Glasgow, he accused the SNP of focusing on “the minutiae of Westminster insider politics” with Labour ahead of the general election, rather than “the big issues that matter such as ending poverty, unemployment, inequality and injustice in Scotland”.

He said: “Even if the SNP seem happy to spend their time talking about hung parliaments, post-election deals and coalitions, we [Labour] will spend our time talking about new Scottish jobs, new Scottish businesses and new Scottish technologies, and how we can benefit from leading a global economic revolution.”

These are arguments that hit home. The SNP is currently tying itself in knots on voters’ doorsteps, telling them that Labour in Scotland is a wasted vote, but they should support the SNP in order to see a coalition with Labour in Westminster – that most Labour MPs, candidates and supporters won’t accept anyway.

Still, the nationalist party’s deputy leader, Stewart Hosie, hit back, saying, “Given their toxic alliance with the Tories for the last two and a half years, people in Scotland would be forgiven for thinking that Labour’s focus is not what they can do for Scotland – but what they can do for their Tory allies.”

What?

There is no alliance between Labour and the Conservative Party. Any politician saying that is lying to their electorate. Stewart Hosie is a liar.

As Labour and the Conservatives have been at daggers-drawn in the House of Commons since the ConDem Coalition was formed in 2010, and Labour MSPs are not in any kind of alliance with Scottish Tories in Holyrood, it seems Hosie was referring again to the SNP’s watery claim that the Better Together campaign – in which Labour and the Tories worked for the Unionist cause – is indicative of a closer relationship between the two parties.

It runs against history, logic and sanity, but the SNP is committed to this lie and they’re damn’ well sticking to it!

Not satisfied with this display of foolishness, Hosie carried on digging: “The general election is Scotland’s opportunity to hold real power at Westminster and to deliver on the priorities of the people who live here – ending austerity, protecting our public services and investing in jobs.”

Firstly, the SNP is unlikely to hold any “real power” at Westminster after May 7 because the great majority of the British voting public don’t want it to.

Would you really put your country in the hands of an organisation that wants to weaken it terminally and then split it up?

That doesn’t make sense at all.

Hosie’s claims about austerity, public services and jobs are interesting, if only because the SNP only ever pays lip-service to these subjects. Its main campaigning platform is always that it isn’t as bad as Labour, which is a poor way to seek election.

All Labour needs to do is keep challenging these nationalists – and then pick up on the claims they make. The SNP’s claims about Labour will disappear like smoke in the wind – all Labour has to do is let in some fresh air.

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37 thoughts on “Former PM picks fight with the SNP; SNP defends itself with lies

  1. David

    SNP have never proposed a coalition with Labour: There has only been speculation about this in the media. And Labour and the tories have been working together in Scotland for most of the last three years in an alliance called ‘Better Together.’

    1. Mike Sivier Post author

      How stupid – Better Together was the campaign for Scottish people to support remaining in the United Kingdom at the independence referendum last year. Labour and the Conservative Party – as organisations supporting the union – were both members of Better Together. That is not the same as saying they were allied, and is certainly not the same as saying that they support each other in any way. Look at the way the Conservative-led Coalition stabbed Labour in the back over Scottish pensions. It is utterly ridiculous to suggest Labour and the Tories are allied on the basis of BT.

      As for the SNP not proposing a Coalition with Labour – those are weasel words. Look at this, from the Independent: “Ms Sturgeon said: ‘I would certainly hope if there was a Labour government and it was dependent on SNP support – which is the most popular preferred outcome of people in Scotland – then I would hope we could persuade and influence a Labour government to take a more moderate approach to deficit reduction.'”
      That’s the leader of the SNP, talking about a possible Labour/SNP deal.

      1. David

        Labour and tories also agree on austerity, nuclear weapons, punishing the sick and disabled (it was Labour that introduced ATOS assessments) and many other policies. Both are right-wing parties who serve the wealthy elite. There is nothing to choose between them. Many senior Labour figures are calling on their supporters to vote tory (or LibDem) to keep the National Party out. Simply calling me ‘stupid’ for pointing this out does not change the facts. Resorting so quickly to insults suggests your argument has little merit.

      2. Mike Sivier Post author

        Labour and Tories do not agree on austerity. They do not agree on punishing the sick and disabled. They do not agree on many other policies. They are not both right-wing parties that serve the wealthy elite (certainly not Labour – you would see such people named as donors and they’re not). There is a huge and widening gulf between them. Not one senior Labour figure has called on supporters to vote Tory or Lib Dem.
        I wasn’t calling you stupid – but your comment certainly was. You haven’t covered yourself in glory here either. It is stupidity to come here and rehash arguments that have long since been debunked, in the expectation that we’re all just going to accept our medicine like good little boys and girls. It is stupidity to come here and make a series of bald claims that have also long since been debunked, and expect a similar reaction.

      3. Mike Sivier Post author

        For goodness’ sake, get a grip. A single, lone, person made a single, lone tweet asking people to vote tactically in some constituencies. This is against Labour policy, which is to ask people to vote Labour, and that single, lone, person was expelled. So now, nobody in Labour is calling on anybody to vote Tory or Liberal Democrat.

        That’s nobody, not several. Please try to understand the difference; I know it will be hard for you.

        Lord Moonie was making a joke, as was detailed in this blog last week.

        George Foulkes strenuously denies your claim: “CyberNats up to usual mischief suggest I advocated tactical voting ignoring Question mark so I repeat always vote Labour wherever you live.”

        I’m getting so tired of having one SNP stooge after another coming along and repeating these lies. It’s time you all started apologising for trying to mislead my readers and the general public. So apologise – or don’t you have the guts?

      4. David

        I have nothing to apologise for. You are the one misleading your readers. You are clearly ignorant of the current political situation in Scotland.

    2. Florence

      Well all I can see is that being urged to vote SNP is right out the Lynton Crosby book of getting the Tories back into power. It’s a dangerous game to play. Why would it be in the UK interests (especially in Wales) to have a Labour /SNP coalition where all actions will be constrained and shaped by a Scottish separatist minority agenda? Would the SNP act for the well-being of millions of our people not living in Scotland in this mythical position of “power”? No, they say the opposite. They want to be in power, but deploy that power in an anti-democratic way to benefit a minority view in a minority population.

      Tossing jibes about the Lab / Tory “cooperation” over the referendum might play well in parts of Scotland but in the rest of the UK it undermines the credibility of the SNP. If the Tories do steal a second term it will cost the lives of the most vulnerable, force millions of children & families into poverty and hunger, destitution & homelessness will rise massively, and lot of people in Scotland will be hurt too. I for one don’t want that to happen to anyone.

  2. Stephen Gallacher

    Y’know , Mike, I really like most of the stuff you post, but you really do seem to have issues with the SNP, and I don’t see why; you set out calling the Deputy leader of the SNP a liar and then contradict yourself within your 6th paragraph:

    “There is no alliance between Labour and the Conservative Party. Any politician saying that is lying to their electorate. Stewart Hosie is a liar.

    As Labour and the Conservatives have been at daggers-drawn in the House of Commons since the ConDem Coalition was formed in 2010, and Labour MSPs are not in any kind of alliance with Scottish Tories in Holyrood, it seems Hosie was referring again to the SNP’s watery claim that the Better Together campaign – in which Labour and the Tories worked for the Unionist cause – is indicative of a closer relationship between the two parties.”

    Is there any formal relationship between the blue Tories and the red, sorry Labour Party, probably not,but you must admit they did have one common interest during the referendum, and as members of the wealthy elite probably have more in common with each other than they do with you or me, you could even say the same about the leaders of the SNP, I certainly can’t imagine Salmond or Sturgeon working in a factory or a call center.
    Neither party really represents the interests of the the common people any more. They all pay, as you say of the SNP, lip service to the issues of the day, especially in the run up to a general election, but we all know when the dust settles it’ll be business as usual for the toffs who supposedly represent us in the “commons”, even the name “commons” is only applicable ironically now.

    I freely admit I am not the most politically educated person, I don’t have the time to study every issue the way I would like to, so do rely on the media (not so much the mainstream media these days) to try and grasp what is going on. Does this not make me the very kind of person Labour should be trying to appeal to?
    Put aside that I’m from Scotland and supported independence, that vote has been and gone, and if the results are to be believed we decided to stick with the rest of the UK. surely though it’s still in our interest to vote for a party that will give us the best possible representation in the UK parliament.

    1. Mike Sivier Post author

      No, no, no. You said it yourself. Lumping Labour and the Tories together as members of the wealthy elite won’t work for you because you can also lump every elected SNP MP and MSP in that category with them. Nicola Sturgeon certainly has more in common with Gordon Brown than with most people on Scottish streets.
      You seem to be saying that none of these three parties is electable because they are all members of a wealthy elite that, to be honest, probably only exists in the heads of spin doctors.

  3. woman with integrity

    Have always enjoyed your articles, but you have an agenda now….to weaken support for the SNP…the party who would have brought us a fairer Scotland with independence, Due to the red tories and their corrupt ilk conspiring together ( and they did with gusto) to deceive the Scottish people, the SNPs only recourse now is to get as many powers for Scotlands people via westminster !! How many pieces of silver did you accept in trade for your integrity ?? Shame on you !!!

  4. Bryan Weir

    I love how misinformed people outside Scotland make daft claims like this. These are people who quite clearly were not here to witness the shenanigans of the Better Together allies. The same people who were not here to see them standing on the same platforms in so many debates throughout Scotland. Can you explain what part of Better Together was it that the Tories and Labour were not allied to?

    Alliance (Noun): a union or association formed for mutual benefit, especially between countries or organizations.

    What part of that definition is it that you cannot understand?

    By the way Labour seem to have no real problems with being allied with the Tories as confirmed by one of their better known blogs.
    http://labourlist.org/2015/03/labour-mp-says-party-shouldnt-rule-out-a-grand-coalition-with-the-tories/

    1. Mike Sivier Post author

      There’s so much that is wrong with this comment, it beggars belief that anyone would have the front to send it to me.

      First off, you should read articles before sending out links to them claiming they support what you’re saying – and you should have read this blog before sending it here because I’ve already debunked your claim. The article is about a single Labour MP spouting nonsense that nobody is taking seriously. Didn’t you read the last line – “Needless to say, this isn’t likely to be a popular suggestion among most Labour supporters or MPs”?

      Your definition of the term “alliance” indicates why Labour and the Tories weren’t allied on Better Together. Neither would have said they were working for the unionist cause for the benefit of their respective parties – and certainly not for the other party’s benefit. They would say they were doing it for the benefit of the United Kingdom. I dare say you won’t understand that but will try to spin it for your own argument anyway.

      Finally, get off your high horse about “people outside Scotland”. As long as you Scottish Nationalists are agitating for the break-up of the United Kingdom, everybody else is entitled to make observations on what you are doing and on what has happened in Scotland. We can see perfectly well what has been happening there, thank you very much. All you are doing by behaving so badly is turning away what little support you had south of the border.

      Like David, you owe us all an apology. Let’s have it.

  5. concernedkev

    Nationalism always muddies the waters as it appeals to tribalism and diverts the attention of working class people (by hand or by brain) from the issue of who owns and controls the means of production and who owns the profits and the means of equitable distribution. You are right to tackle the SNP but on the basis of the political opportunism of the leaders. They are putting their own narrow ambitions ahead of the good working class people who have traditionally supported Labour. The problem is based on the present outdated and gerrymandered electoral system. The numbers game leave us at the mercy of, quite rightly, disenchanted Labour voters in Scotland. Their reasons for that disenchantment are the same as those of the whole of British Labour supporters. Whether we like it or not those leading figures of New Labour are still sniping from the sidelines and the Tory press love to wheel them out to attempt to discredit and derail the present campaign, which is gaining support on all the major issues. We have to accept though the question of Austerity and workers paying the price for the banking crisis is a key issue and if Labour brought tackling TAX avoidance and evasion as central to their economic policy how to implement other pledges would flow from there.
    Cameron played the ace of divide and rule with the referendum knowing it would cause confusion in the ranks. Labours mistake was to join with them in the BT campaign instead of arguing on the class interests of acting together as workers to protect union rights and working conditions which the employers have ravaged north and south of the border under the Tories and SNP

    1. Mike Sivier Post author

      You want Labour to tackle tax avoidance? Remember this article: http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2015/02/11/labour-soars-ahead-with-plan-to-tackle-tax-avoidance/ ?

      With hindsight, being part of Better Together was a bad idea, but it’s easy to understand why Labour joined (even though some Labour members ran a different campaign) – the idea is that, when two enemies find themselves both facing a large foe (in this case the possibility of Scotland leaving the union) they should pool resources to defeat it rather than staying separate and facing defeat. Unfortunately the Tories did what they always do, and stabbed Labour in the back at every opportunity.

  6. Joan Edington

    I’m coming into this one too late to join the usual bickering, I suppose, but I have to say that branding Stuart Hosie “a liar” is a bit strong in my mind. He was merely stating his opinion and that of his party to the fact that Labour, Tories and LibDems stood on platforms together with the backing of the entire MSM. Anyone with an ounce of sense sees this as electioneering, as all parties do before elections.

    However, if there are any real lies to be spotted in the campaigns up here, the lies come from Labour (Scottish lot, so am not saying they are backed by Milliband). I am not talking about the stupidity of McNeil or Moonie either before you leap on your “loose canon” horse. I am referring to the man himself, Jim Murphy, whose choice as leader has led to most of the anti-Labour comments from Scots.

    He said Labour would scrap tuition fees in Scotland (who don’t pay them anyway). He has always backed tuition fees in rUK which makes him a hypocrite as well.

    He held a press meeting outside an old A & E unit to show the crisis of the NHS in Scotland. That unit was closed and he didn’t mention the brand new multi-million A & E clinic that had replaced it just up the road (neither did the TV folk of course). He said Labour would sort that out.

    He said that Labour would place more nurses in the NHS in Scotland.

    All that is what I call proper lying, since neither he, nor Labour in general, could do any of that since they are devolved issues, not relevant to a UK general election, for which he is standing (at last hearing anyway but who knows with Jim). If, in some unlikely time in the future, he becomes an MSP and Labour leads the Scottish Government, then he would be able to make these statements as promises rather than lies.

    1. Mike Sivier Post author

      Hosie was claiming that because Labour and the Conservatives collaborated on Better Together – a campaign that was not party-political – they must also be allied in terms of their political views. That is very obviously a lie. He is a liar.

      Now, Jim Murphy:

      Scottish people don’t pay tuition fees for university students because the Scottish Parliament subsidises them. Murphy’s pledge is consistent with Labour Party policy at Holyrood, since the first Labour-led coalition under Donald Dewar abolished tuition fees and introduced a graduate endowment tax instead.

      According to TheyWorkForYou, he voted moderately for the imposition of tuition fees, but very strongly against raising tuition fees to £9,000 a year in England. Have you looked into his reasons for voting in this way? it seems likely that there may have been financial considerations forcing his hand in the imposition of the fees, but his own morality would not justify him agreeing to the Tory-prompted increase. I don’t know – but then, neither do you.

      Re: A&E – are you complaining that he was misleading the public about the NHS in Scotland, or are you complaining about his choice of location for the press conference?

      You say he was lying about the NHS because “neither he, nor Labour in general, could do any of that since they are devolved issues, not relevant to a UK general election”. That is a mistake.

      Living in Wales as I do, I know that the amount of money going into the Welsh NHS is dependent on the amount of AEF (Aggregate External Funding) grant provided by the UK government in Westminster. The same condition applies in Scotland. If this funding drops, then less money is available for the health service in Wales/Scotland. Murphy was saying a Labour government would increase this funding, making it possible to address the A&E crisis and provide more nurses. As Labour is committed to increasing NHS funding – and funding to the devolved countries is proportionate to that in England, it seems clear that this was a sincere pledge.

      Did you check any of your claims before making this comment?

      1. Joan Edington

        Yes I do check my facts and I am not so stupid to not realise that Scottish NHS funding is affected by rUK NHS funding. That is why Scottish MPs should not be stopped voting on NHS matters at Westminster.

        The point I was making was that Jim Murphy can not promise that he, as a Westminster MP, can dictate the number of nurses or where any NHS funding can be used in Scotland. The best Labour can do is promise to keep the rUK NHS funding high enough to keep Scotland’s funding at a similar level.

        If he was standing as a Labour MSP, then he could make those promises as part of his campaign during the Scottish Parliament elections. To make them as part of his Westminster campaign is lying, or at least misleading those who are not savvy enough to know the difference between the parliaments. I doubt there are too many folk up here that applies to after last September.

        Re the A & E location, it was an obvious tactic to make the current Scottish NHS look bad. Why hold an interview outside a tatty old unit that had been closed and replaced by a far superior one unless it was a direct ploy to make the SNP look bad. And you complain about the SNP slagging him.

        As for tuition fees, what he has voted previously has nothing to do with the fact that, for the same reason as I gave for the NHS, as a Westminster MP he has no control over Scottish tuition fees so can not make these promises. He can if he ever stands to be a Labour MSP.

      2. Mike Sivier Post author

        Joan, you’re nitpicking over the NHS and A&E, and I think you know it. If the amount of money going to Scotland is increased, then logically it will be put where it’s needed. Jim Murphy would have had information that this meant A&E and nursing staff, therefore he said that’s where the money would go. It’s not a lie, no matter how hard you try to twist it!
        I see your gripe about the A&E location is just about where he had his conference and not what it was about. Don’t the SNP do the same, though?
        Tuition fees. I’ve done a bit of research on this. Scotland doesn’t currently charge tuition fees – except to students from the other UK countries. As Labour is planning to cut the tuition fee ceiling to £6,000, Scottish universities could lose £37 million a year. Murphy had to pledge more central government funding to plug the gap or institutions like St Andrew’s University might go to the wall. So he’s not lying about that, either. http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/mar/03/snp-scottish-labour-tuition-fees-pledge

      3. Florence

        Mike, I can only surmise from some of the posts, like this one, that you’ve really hit a nerve with the SNP, and that you blog is highly influential, and so they’re jumping up & down hoping that repetition will win the point, rather than facts.

        That’ll never work here! But it is making highly informative reading if these are really representative of the SNP thought process. It’s a strange world view if they really think that the Lab / Con coalition is or ever would happen, or even more strange that the rest of the UK would ever believe it. It reads more like a study of cult behaviour.

  7. Hibbibri

    For an insignificant party you come across as very worried about the SNP Mike, worried with a chip on your shoulder. I’m an ex labour voter, when labour were labour and not red torry that is, but now I’m fully behind the SNP and not because they are anti English but because they are Pro Scottish. Open your eyes son the conservative and labour parties are now two cheeks of the same backside.

    1. Mike Sivier Post author

      Then why is the SNP so keen to be part of an alliance with the Labour Party?
      I’m sorry, but your comment makes no sense.
      If you’ve seen the news lately, you’ll know that any seats gained by Labour in the rest of the UK could be negated by those lost to the SNP in Scotland, making another Conservative government far more likely. It seems that most of the support for the SNP has been gathered by the use and regular repetition of lies – people like yourself come to this blog regularly, rattling out tired claims that I have debunked many times. Somebody is telling them these lies, and it isn’t Labour.
      Your own use of the phrase “Red Tory” (I’ve corrected the spelling for you) is an example of this. It’s a derogatory term used by SNP supporters in defiance of the facts.

  8. Hibbibri

    Mike, people intending to vote SNP don’t see much difference between New Labour and Tory and it’s time that sunk in, though there is still a tad of hope that there are some glints of light that the SNP and new Labour can, together, top the Tories as the SNP can’t do it alone and I doubt New Labour can either.
    You could maybe add the Greens and Plaid Cymru to the SNP to also help oust the present incumbents.

    ‘The lesser of two evils’ is a saying that springs to mind here.

    Scotland voted Labour in 1970,1979, 1983, 1987, 1992, 2010, and we still got Tory governments and you think we’ve to keep voting for these test crash dummies up here!

    No thank you,not again.

    Labour MP A.Darling got a standing ovation at the Tory conference and you think that’s not because of an act of getting into bed with them (and stayed there), or do you think they did and you’re ok with that?
    On 13th Jan 2015, long after the referendum, 28 Scottish Labour MPs voted with the Tories for £75billion of cuts and tax rises leading to misery for those that are most in need of help and you’re ok with New Labour acting that way?
    I for one am not and going by the polls I’m not alone in my thinking, so SNP it is for me and maybe just maybe the Tories will be toppled and we’ll see an end for the NEED for FOODBANKS in this day and age.

    There’s a lot more irking us regarding the cosiness between the two big parties BTW, far too much to write out here but freely available out there.

    The Scotlab leader Murphy is a joke who TBH doesn’t seem to know if he’s coming or going and he changes his tune with the wind, or when Labour HQ in London tells him to more like, and just today his response to the latest Ashcroft poll was to post a ‘cartoon’ on twitter suggesting an SNP vote will suit the Tories ! and you want us Scots to vote for him and his motley crew…don’t think so.
    You can twist and turn all the above however you want as I’m not a political mogul but a mere working husband and father of three young kids but as I’m actually having to live in the environment and can see first hand what’s actually being said and actioned on, I’ve taken a small interest in politics, enough to say I’ve had enough of New Labour.
    See you at the polling station on the 7th May ;o)

    ps Thank you for correcting my typo in my original post (I’ve corrected the terminology for you)

    Petty I know, isn’t it :o)

    1. Mike Sivier Post author

      There is no such thing as ‘New Labour’. It’s time that sank in, before you read any further.

      If people intending to vote SNP don’t see much difference between Labour and Conservative, they are mistaken. That needs to sink in as well – along with the reason for their mistake, which is that they are being deliberately misled by the party that will gain from the mistake – the SNP.

      New Labour can never top the Tories, as you put it, because New Labour doesn’t exist. The Labour Party might manage it, if the SNP and its adherents quit their negative campaign of lies and offer voters the facts about their own policies instead (I know. It’ll never happen. The voters would turn away in their thousands).

      Your comment on Scotland’s voting pattern is irrelevant as firstly you omit important data and secondly you do not mention that, out of 18 elections since 1945, Scotland got the government for which it voted 12 times – that’s two-thirds of all Parliaments since World War II. There have been many occasions in which the rest of the UK didn’t get what it wanted, and if you split it further, many occasions in which England didn’t get what it wanted. That’s democracy – and you simply do not have a point to make.

      You can shut up about Labour getting “into bed” with the Tories too. This is based entirely on the ‘Better Together’ campaign which was always intended to be non-party political – not about party policies but about whether people believed Scotland should split from the union or stay with it. That does not suit the SNP’s strategy now, so the SNP is claiming that party policy did come into BT, and that Labour, the Tories and the Liberal Democrats (and who knows who else) were allied because they’re “all the same”. It’s utterly, utterly ridiculous – pish, as some SNP campaigners are keen to say.

      Your comment about Labour MPs voting for billions of pounds worth of cuts is wrong, for reasons I have trotted out in this blog many times. If you don’t understand the concepts involved, don’t try to use them in your arguments.

      Current polling shows the Tories won’t be toppled by people voting SNP north of the border. Instead, Labour gains in England are being cancelled by what’s happening in Scotland and the Tories are more likely to get back in. If that happens, a lot of people down here will hate the Scottish nationalists (but not Scotland itself – Scottish nationalists do not represent the majority of Scotland, as the referendum showed, and it will be possible for them to gain many seats without actually commanding a majority of the popular vote. Whither then SNP claims that Scotland doesn’t get what it votes for?) and the party you support will be in for an extremely difficult five years.

      Criticisms of Jim Murphy have been debunked on this blog. No doubt more will be made and they will be debunked too. I have no particular fondness for the man but a lie is a lie and when these are levelled against someone, it is important that they are revealed to be lies. For example, I have just demonstrated that the SNP vote will indeed suit the Tories very nicely, but you are suggesting this is inaccurate. Get a grip on reality, please.

      You suggest that I would twist what you say – this is not true but no doubt you will claim it’s what I have done. I have provided the facts to counterbalance your falsehoods. I can do it easily, and I can do it until the general election and beyond.

      Oh, and your comment that I can’t know what I’m talking about because I don’t live in Scotland is not only insulting to me and every other voter outside Scotland, it demeans you as well.

  9. Hibbibri

    Mmm I’ll make sure I pass on to the 90,000 SNP party members that we’re all wrong and that you’re right Mike :o)

    You mean like scotlabs current campaign of an SNP vote is a vote for the tories, got ya ;o)

    Since 1945 !! I wasn’t even born back then but if you want to go as far back as that to make your figures look good go for it.

    Not very polite Mike I have to say, telling someone to shut up when they don’t agree with your points, is that some kind of New Labour democracy policy?

    I’ll admit I don’t fully understand political concepts as I’m just a Joe Bloggs, well Joe Mcbloggs really, but in the 13th Jan 2015 vote on austerity how did the Labour mp’s vote, for/against or abstained. It’s public record that it was either ‘for’ or ‘abstain’ but hey you say I’m wrong so I must be

    So because the Scotlab are a laughing stock in Scotland it’s all the SNP’s fault and they’ll be ‘hated’ for it…seriously Mike,hatred ?

    More recent polls suggest otherwise but time will tell ;o)

    Try and debunk the cartoon on his twitter today Mike or how about the deleted tweet from a couple of weeks ago after making false claims about cancelled hospital operations in Scotland based on misread figures…
    This one > http://tinyurl.com/l9ec9j2
    He even came out and said it was the SNP’s fault for not publishing stats even though it was ALL included in the FOI response to Richard Simpson

    Very True, have a word with Jim Murphy please

    Is that you Mike or should we call you Jim? Reality has hit home, you can see it with all the foodbanks and sanctions

    So you’re good at the twist. What other dances can you do?

    What comment was that Mike as i never said that at all

    Nothing you have said has made me change my mind on voting for the SNP instead of Labour, nothing

    Slàinte & Tioraidh

    1. Mike Sivier Post author

      You need to understand that tourists like you turn up here every day, thinking they’re the first to come out with this rubbish.

      Yes – the SNP party members who actually believe what you’ve been shovelling are wrong – they’ve been knowingly misled and manipulated by people with an agenda.

      I used 1945 because I was quoting from an article and that’s the starting point its author chose. If you want to try to use that as a means of criticising me, you’ll only make yourself look stupid.

      You really don’t understand the January vote, do you? Okay, here’s a passage from a page I’m putting together about SNP lies:
      “SNP adherents say Labour signed up to Tory austerity when it voted to support the Charter for Budget Responsibility. This created a big fuss about Labour supporting Tory austerity, being just the same as the Tories, and there being only 17 MPs who oppose austerity (the number who voted against the CBR). Bunkum, according to the Resolution Foundation.
      “The ‘Charter for Budget Responsibility’ is highly elastic: it’s not based on a firm commitment to reach balance in 2017-18,” states the Resolution Foundation article. “Instead it represents a rolling ‘aim’ of planning to reach current balance three years down the road.” The article adds: “Most economists are sceptical about how much difference it (the charter) will make.
      “So what if Labour targets a current balance in 2019-20 instead? Based on current OBR assumptions this could be achieved with as little as £7 billion of fiscal consolidation in the four years to 2019-20 (including the cost of extra debt interest).”
      “Labour has made it clear that it plans to make only £7 billion of cuts. As this coincides exactly with the Resolution Foundation’s figures for a 2019-20 budget balance, logic suggests that this is most likely to be what Ed Balls is planning.
      “Over four years, £7 billion of cuts may be hard to notice. The Tories’ £30 billion of cuts would be a different matter. Thank goodness Labour hasn’t signed up to it and isn’t supporting Tory austerity!”
      Get it?

      Now, what’s this? “So because the Scotlab are a laughing stock in Scotland it’s all the SNP’s fault and they’ll be ‘hated’ for it…seriously Mike,hatred?” As I never wrote this, I’m assuming you’re trying to convince people I did. Don’t try to put words in my mouth (or on my keyboard).

      As for the words in italics – what is all that about? You seem to be losing the plot. I’m not surprised I haven’t changed your mind as your mind does not seem all that stable.

  10. Hibbibri

    Try re reading the Seventh paragraph Mike, you (or your keyboard) most certainly said ‘a lot of people down here will hate the Scottish nationalists’

    1. Mike Sivier Post author

      I never said anything about it being due to Scottish Labour’s failings, though – you put that in. Don’t try to attribute words to me that I did not use.

    1. Mike Sivier Post author

      I edited it out. For some reason you decided to repeat a load of your previous post.

    1. Mike Sivier Post author

      Not at all – you had already said everything I cut.
      I will moderate you out of you waste my time with any more comments like this, though.

  11. Bill Hume

    I’m obviously one of these ‘tourist visitors’ to this site. I must say, however, that for a not terribly successful freelance journalist and unheard of musician, you have (as we say in Scotland) a good conceit of your own importance.

    Roll on May.

    1. Mike Sivier Post author

      And you have nothing but personal insults to set against the arguments I’ve put forward; therefore you must agree that my arguments must be correct.

Comments are closed.