These Corbyn detractors need to get their stories straight

Flint: Resigned her place in the shadow cabinet and is now complaining that women have not been given top jobs.
Flint: Resigned her place in the shadow cabinet and is now complaining that women have not been given top jobs.

Some of Labour’s right-wing women seem to be agitating against Jeremy Corbyn – unwisely, perhaps, considering their previously-stated positions.

The Graun quoted Caroline Flint and Lisa Nandy, both complaining that women have not been appointed to top jobs in the shadow cabinet, in line with comments by Harriet Harman at Labour’s women’s conference.

Ms Flint said: “We haven’t got women in the top jobs in our party. That includes the major offices of state. I think that is a missed opportunity.”

Maybe it is, Caroline – but you missed it! Ms Flint, lest anyone forget, announced her refusal to accept any position in the shadow cabinet two days after Mr Corbyn was elected leader. She said she could “best support the Labour party and the leadership from outside the shadow cabinet.”

Now she’s complaining about the lack of women in top positions? Let’s have some consistency, please, Caroline!

Worse still, Lisa Nandy told Sky’s Dermot Murnaghan she was “uncomfortable” that Labour’s leader and deputy leader were both men. This is bizarre. She saw that women and men were on the ballot papers for both positions. The Labour Party chose the people who most members considered were best for the roles. That’s democracy.

Is Lisa Nandy opposed to democracy now?

Furthermore, Ms Nandy is the new shadow energy secretary, meaning she has accepted a job in the shadow cabinet – but is still content to snipe at the leaders, and the system that put them on top – a system in which she participated.

Ms Nandy said she supports a long-standing proposal that either the leader or deputy leader should be a woman. In the name of gender equality, this is all well and good. But Labour relies on the principle that a job should be done by the best person for it, regardless of background, privileges, sex, religion or any other possible reason for division.

Demanding that possible candidates be disqualified because of their sex is an act of negative discrimination (is there any other kind?) and should not be allowed.

The simple fact is that the Labour Party did not support the female candidates for leader or deputy leader – not because they were female, but because of their policy proposals.

Regarding the shadow cabinet appointments, This Writer does not have inside information about the deliberations that took place. However, considering the complaints about those appointments are coming from two people who have deliberately left Labour’s front bench, it is clear that they should not be taken seriously.

Let’s not have any more of this.

Additional: It seems John Prescott agrees with me. Not sure whether that’s a good or bad thing… He said: “I think that’s their right, of course, [not to serve in the shadow cabinet] but then don’t complain if the cabinet’s not of your own making. I mean, we’ve just seen that with Harriet, about five or six of their leading women refused to stand, and then complained about the make up of the cabinet. Look, that’s just not on. It’s each individual’s right to do that but don’t criticise a cabinet when it’s made up from 45% of the women members in the PLP and more women than men in his cabinet. So why the hell are you moaning?”

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24 Thoughts to “These Corbyn detractors need to get their stories straight”

  1. Morons. A bunch of morons. Sorry, I could not help myself but the irony and contradiction is so great that I am now going to have to go take a big **** to relieve my tension. I don’t agree with all of what Corbyn or even McDonnell say but like Prescott, of whom I am a great admirer, this asinine bed-wetting is intentional and harmful to the party as a whole.

    That’s their plan isn’t it? Bring Labour to its knees intentionally, scapegoat the members and their democratic will with a view to providing a solution to the very ‘problem’ they themselves are creating.

    1. Mike Sivier

      That seems like a Tory strategy, to me.

      1. Perhaps the use of a distinctly Tory strategy might have something to do with the fact that the complainants are, themselves, Red Tories? =)

      2. Mike Sivier that is what they are. RED TORIES. If they cant get their own ways , complain about everything. well dear if you don’t like your post you was offered. Leave. I’m sure there will be lots willing to take your place.

  2. Ruth WERBISKI Dutton

    I would be very interested to know exactly what proportion of actual Labour Members, as against £3 “Supporters” actually voted for Jeremy Corbyn? I did not, as I worked with JC back in the 1970s! enuff said!! I also believe this reporting is yet again quoted out of context. Right wing media perhaps, again? Caroline Flint did not want to be in JC’s Cabinet but her point is that there are an awful lot of other female Labour MPs who may have liked to be considered for one of the top jobs and may well have been highly qualified to be so – what about I think it was Mary Creagh the lady who dropped out of the race?? Was she asked or considered? I don’t know?? For the time being we must unite together and find a way forward for our diverse views and to seek to right the wrongs we see being done to our own GB folks…

    1. Mike Sivier

      Mary Creagh also refused to work in the shadow cabinet.
      Are you saying you did not like Corbyn when you worked with him in the 1970s? Do you think he’s the same now as he was then? Are you?
      I don’t think Ms Flint or Ms Nandy were quoted out of context – what they were saying seems very clear.

      1. Ruth WERBISKI Dutton

        I did not know of Mary Creagh’s response – perhaps she too, had also tried working with JC in the past? Owen’s suggestion then is quite ridiculous – what on earth is he suggesting – that only rabid left wing insulters, JC excluded here are entitled to be Members of our Labour Party? Owen should remember the LABOUR PARTY is for ALL the working people of GB, not exclusive little cliques!!!

      2. Mike Sivier

        I’ve had to remove part of your comment as you make allegations without proof which could lay this site open to legal action. Please don’t do that.
        Your comment about “rabid left wing insulters” is also contentious. Nobody is making any such claim and I wonder why you suggest it.
        Your point that Labour is for ALL the working people of the country, not just exclusive cliques, is wrong in one respect – Labour is for everybody, working or not, and your opposition to cliques is strange considering your support for Ms Flint, Ms Nandy and their little anti-Corbyn clique.

      3. Ruth WERBISKI Dutton

        Computer froze – ancient, like me, needs some sleep!! Saw your email(s) but don’t know what’s happened to it/them on here??? Labour Party was started by Unions, I believe, (my history/basic education somewhat lacking – left School at age 13 yrs, to work, poor family 1962) for working folks so that they could care for others who could not work for illness disability, whatever, mind folks just died back then in the 1920s/30s as there was no NHS and all meds had to be paid for… so no money, no meds – death and that is where we are now and I know Caroline Flint also comes from a fairly poor family and detests what the Tories are doing. Don’t you think though, Mike, that calling or suggesting that good solid Labour Party Members are “Red Tories” is offensive, because I do? Why call folks names at all?
        As to the £3 supporters – did you not see the Tory Councillor with his three donkeys/asses for whom he had enrolled as £3 supporters and even next door to me here in Blue Baboon Land South Bucks – a very likely Tory who had been left here 12 months or more wow a £3 Supporter!!!
        I don’t know where you got your figures from, as I had looked and looked at the Labour Party’s website to see what constituted JC’s vote…. but ran out of time too much to do looking after around 500 many very elderly Timeshare Owners being cheated by Fraudsters and Bullies and various other folks with Tribunals, Courts, Divorce with fraudulent Mortgage, Trial coming up – often working till early hours, then up again 10am. Somebody recently asked me whether NO was not in my vocabulary, when stopping to help folks… guess not. I am a retired Lawyer – how did I manage that, having left school at 13? Night-school generally after just taking and passing O level English Language, but always good at Maths, English, Physics, Chemistry, Languages etc., at school. Hopeless at Art, Needlework etc.
        So as I see it, we need to unite to beat the right wing vultures before they completely destroy our country – Osborne was busy giving away GB HS2 Contracts in China yesterday – today CaMORON wanting to “negotiate” with Bashar Al Assad as “interim” Leader – why when he is the original cause of the exodus from Syria with his State carpet and chemical bombing of his rebels and their Cities and everybody else!!! International Criminal Court, put in Interim Govt with European and Middle Eastern countries help, not Putin – he’s been supplying the bombs – an associate of carpet and chemical bombing Assad!!!
        I left the Labour Party in 2002/03 could not support Blair taking country to war – weapons of mass destruction – complete tripe and jumping in bed with Bush…. Returned in 2010 liked Ed Milliband’s environmental credentials and did all I possibly (and time limited) could before the 2015 elections for Labour… Now, need sleep as filing/sorting papers for divorce to negotiate with and hand over to Solicitors – keeping costs down and drafting Maintenance Orders Appeal, then Tax and Pension Credit Appeal papers before I go on holiday taking my mentally disabled younger Brother later next week – Timeshare…
        What did I say holiday, what holiday?? I was besieged last year and still haven’t had time to write to all from October 2014, but hoping to do so…. very soon.
        Keep up the good work with the FB page and the website.

      4. Mike Sivier

        What makes you think Caroline Flint is a “good, solid Labour Party member” if she won’t follow a good, solid Labour leader like Jeremy Corbyn?
        Your protestations about your background and your current commitments look like excuses. Remember, you started this discussion. I help a lot of people as well, but I don’t use it as an excuse and I never try to turn a discussion about politics into a discussion about me.

      5. Ruth WERBISKI Dutton

        Ahh the post have all just appeared above (as I’ve had to close all other windows down on this poor ancient computer – sorry I’m a bit of a technosaur) – so….
        Martin, Syzyg etc and John, Why are you all so interested and knowledgeable about the Labour Party – much more than myself? Perhaps you ALL want to join and so you should all join – broad church, all welcome, provided you support Labour Party principles of Justice and decency for ALL people, not just the privileged few. If you are already Members, well just remember we need to UNITE to beat the Tory Vultures and those Greens, SNP, UKIPs and Tories, who would wish to destroy the Labour Party….
        Thank you and goodnight…

      6. Ruth WERBISKI Dutton

        Mike, Your post’s also just appeared above, below, everything’s jumping all over the place – very confusing, was leaving. Don’t know Miss Nandy but definitely Caroline Flint will and does want to unite the Party – we discussed the very possibility of what to do should JC actually win Leadership – UNITY the word, so I do not believe there is anything like your imagined anti-Corbyn clique?? Most Members including your so called and I am sure imagined Red Tories want UNITY to beat the real enemy!! Or is it more important for hard lefties to have a hard lefty-trotskyist Party, which seems to have somewhere lost it’s Labour Party roots….to care for and join with ALL people???

      7. Mike Sivier

        If Caroline Flint wants to unite the Labour Party, it will be under neoliberal principles, not Labour principles. If you’re unaware of the word ‘neoliberalism’, after supporting a Labour Party that has adhered to it for 20 years, then look it up now. If ‘Unity’ is your word, I suggest the policies you might support would involve unity with the Conservative Party, which is also full of neoliberals. Look at Labour and Tory policies over the last 20 years. The differences between them were either non-existent or so slight that they confused the general public, who ended up just supporting the devil they already knew (the Tories). Nobody is imagining neoliberal Labour MPs (the so-called Red Tories) – they are real and they are a threat. Consider Chuka Umunna. Consider Tristram Hunt. Consider Liz Kendall. They don’t want “to care for and join with ALL people”. Meanwhile you again try to run down people with Labour values by describing them as “hard lefty-Trotskyists”, which is a false description. Shame on you for trying to use it.

    2. I am replying to the very first comment, I can’t make it work properly and reply direct to it.

      Full members voted for Jeremy on the first ballot, 121,751 for him, 55,698 for Andy and 54,470 for Yvette. 245,520 altogether. I think he would have still won if the others had combined their votes? (Can’t do the maths!) Here’s the link to the full figures:

      http://www.labour.org.uk/blog/entry/results-of-the-labour-leadership-and-deputy-leadership-election

      1. Mike Sivier

        You’ve missed out Liz. He’d have narrowly missed an outright majority if the votes of all three others had been combined. Second time around, with Liz eliminated, he’d have won on the members’ vote.

  3. Ruth WERBISKI Dutton

    Well Owen if the Red Tories wish to join us as Labour Party Members and work with us to defeat this horrific right wing Government, then all the better. It’s better to discuss, to respect the opinions of others, even if we do not agree than to silence and have back-stabbing and undercover malicious dissent? Don’t you agree?

    1. Mike Sivier

      Er, I think Owen was suggesting that Ms Flint and Ms Nandy – and the others who have been using the argument that Mr Corbyn has not employed enough women, despite them occupying more than half of the shadow cabinet positions – ARE Red Tories, lurking in Labour under false pretences.

    2. “I would be very interested to know exactly what proportion of actual Labour Members, as against £3 “Supporters” actually voted for Jeremy Corbyn?”

      “Well Owen if the Red Tories wish to join us as Labour Party Members and work with us to defeat this horrific right wing Government, then all the better. It’s better to discuss, to respect the opinions of others, even if we do not agree than to silence and have back-stabbing and undercover malicious dissent?”
      —-
      You seem to be contradicting yourself somewhat, especially when you put the word ‘supporters’ in inverted commas. You imply less validity to the left-wing supporters, almost questioning their right to have a vote, then in your next post you are opening your arms to the right-wingers and insisting that their views be respected.

      I also have to question your own validity as a Labour member if you express ignorance of information that the party has freely put into the public domain. You see, there was a full breakdown of the votes when the result was announced, and it has been freely available for scrutiny on the party website ever since; –

      http://www.labour.org.uk/blog/entry/results-of-the-labour-leadership-and-deputy-leadership-election

      As you can see, Corbyn won by every available measure. Out of 245,520 full members, Corbyn got 121,751. Just shy of 50% and so not quite enough to win in the first round, but clearly the stand-out leader, as no one else even got as far as 56,000 (they got just over 123,000 between them). Of 105,598 other registered supporters, Corbyn got the votes of 88,449. That’s nearly five times as many votes as the other three put together. The affiliate vote didn’t really change anything in terms of the proportion at all.

      Also consider how many new members have joined Labour since Corbyn won. It is absolutely inescapable that his position as Labour leader is legitimate and democratically fair.

      Amazing isn’t it? I know all this, and I’m a member of the Green Party. You’re supposed to be a Labour member and you don’t.

    3. “Ahh the post have all just appeared above (as I’ve had to close all other windows down on this poor ancient computer – sorry I’m a bit of a technosaur) – so….
      Martin, Syzyg etc and John, Why are you all so interested and knowledgeable about the Labour Party – much more than myself? Perhaps you ALL want to join and so you should all join – broad church, all welcome, provided you support Labour Party principles of Justice and decency for ALL people, not just the privileged few. If you are already Members, well just remember we need to UNITE to beat the Tory Vultures and those Greens, SNP, UKIPs and Tories, who would wish to destroy the Labour Party….
      Thank you and goodnight…”

      If that’s all supposed to mean, “Thank you for giving me the information I asked for,” you’re welcome. But the point about others on here being more knowledgeable about the Labour leadership election than you are was the one I was putting to you. How come you DON’T know it?

  4. @Ruth WERBISKI Dutton

    ‘I would be very interested to know exactly what proportion of actual Labour Members, as against £3 “Supporters” actually voted for Jeremy Corbyn?’

    49% of full members voted for Jeremy Corbyn. He would have won even if there had been no £3 supporters included in the vote.

  5. Tory Labour members will try anything that they can to bring down Corbyn to appease their right wing masters as the don’t like the boat to be rocked, the status quo suits them right now so they don’t want anyone like Corbyn to upset it.

    1. Well they better run then, Because Corbyn’s going nowhere, Thank God.

  6. Whatever happened to the notion that one should be judged on merit rather than gender. Caroline Flint deserves a swift kick up the derriere, not only has she betrayed all those who wasted a vote on her in the Labour election process, but she has just betrayed all women with this petty wah wah tantrum. She may well fancy herself as a leading light with lots of media attention focusing on her, but her very act of “flouncing” off in bitter resentment shows how undeserving she was, of the position she was offered. No doubt she fancies her chances with the Labour Right when they get rid of Corbyn and she will likely be right there sticking the knife in his back. Silly little girl, I don’t have any time for winsome wenches throwing a hissy fit when they can’t get what they want.

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