IMPORTANT: Do NOT trust Cameron over benefit-related deaths


From reading Twitter tonight, it seems many, many people have become over-excited about Marie Rimmer’s achievement in getting David Cameron to say the Conservative Government will be publishing figures relating to people who have died while claiming benefit.

What are you all thinking?

David Cameron is a LIAR. You should all know that by know.

When he said, “The data will be published; they are being prepared for publication as we speak,” he was referring to a very particular version of this information which will be completely useless in working out the number of people who have died.

Only a week ago, This Blog revealed that the government plans to publish the figures as ‘Age-Standardised Mortality Rates’.

I wrote: “Age-Standardised mortality rates are the number of deaths, usually expressed per 100,000, that would occur in that area if it had the same age structure as the standard population and the local age-specific rates of the area applied, according to Public Health England.

“The figures to be published by the DWP would not state the number of deaths which have taken place between November 2011 and May 2014. Instead we would be given a fudged figure showing the number of deaths among ESA claimants when compared with the average number among the population as a whole. That is not what I requested; it is not what anybody wants.”

My assessment is endorsed by Ms Rimmer in this Mirror Online article, which states: “Officials want to release ‘standardised’ figures which won’t show the actual number of deaths – even though they released actual death numbers in 2012.

“Instead of the real-life numbers they plan to release ‘Age Standardised Mortality Rates’, which present deaths as a ratio when compared to the population as a whole.”

Ms Rimmer is quoted as follows: “What is needed now from this disclosure is the full picture with information unadulterated.

“The Prime Minister must stick to his word by publishing the data unedited.”

This Writer’s opinion is that he wanted to take away people’s reason for signing the petition to force the DWP to reveal the exact number of people who have died since the Conservatives enacted their cruel ‘welfare reforms’ in the early years of the Coalition Government.

That petition currently has nearly a quarter of a million signatories and it seems likely that Cameron is terrified that he’ll be crushed by the weight of public opinion.

He should be.

It is important that people realise what David Cameron and his government are promising is not what the public has demanded.

Unfortunately, it is true that a lie can go around the world while the truth is still putting on its running shoes and This Blog cannot publicise the facts without help.

Please share this article as widely as you can and contact your local news media – papers, TV and radio – to let them know that the government has misled people.

It is important that we do everything we can to stop David Cameron from getting away with this.

Follow me on Twitter: @MidWalesMike

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  1. Nick June 24, 2015 at 8:37 pm - Reply

    I think its clear mike in that IDS will never publish those figures on the deaths of the sick and disabled that have gone through welfare reform and been found fit for work but died soon after woods

    IDS is a law unto himself and for some odd reason has a hold on David Cameron as I’m not sure David Cameron himself would approve of the deaths of the sick and disabled as having had a disabled son himself who tragically died

    I know very well, there are bad people in the world but I do not think David Cameron is at that level at this time

    IDS on the other hand seems to be very detached from these deaths and never shows any sign of anger that is not normal in a sane person

    Any normal chief executive of any company would be up in arms on the first death to get to the bottom of who was responsible and to make sure that never happened again and to make it loud and clear that those at the DWP who make bad judgement calls not only will be sacked but will be arrested and face justice before a court in the same way a police office killing someone with a gun has to or a nurse who is clinically negligent in the killing of patients through giving the wrong drugs

    Had IDS made that stance in the very beginning back in 2010 the deaths figures today would be a single figures

    IDS needs to be watched very carefully with so many deaths as his door the DWP says only 44 deaths which is shocking to even have to admit to that number but we all know only too well the true number of deaths runs into several hundred’s with another 5 years to run

    • mohandeer June 28, 2015 at 12:30 am - Reply

      How many people milk the death of their son the way David Cameron did in the run up to the election – and milk it he did at every opportunity. I think you give him too much credit.

  2. Rupert Mitchell (@rupert_rrl) June 24, 2015 at 8:42 pm - Reply

    Obviously we want to know the actual figure so no fudge will be acceptable.

    • Carbolic June 25, 2015 at 3:55 am - Reply

      The only fudge I’ll settle for is rum and raisin. But as soon as I’ve finished eating it I’ll be wanting to see the actual information that was originally requested.

  3. Michael Broadhurst June 24, 2015 at 8:46 pm - Reply

    there’s less trouble caused in a nest of rats,than what trouble this govt is causing.

  4. Chris Tandy June 24, 2015 at 9:03 pm - Reply

    I knew there would be a catch. Afteral, if caMoron says “There have been 250 such deaths, that is 250 too many. One death is too many! So any figure suddenly released has got to bea total fudge. I just widh somebody would have the bollocks to stand up in Parliament and call him a F^cking liar. I know that is not ‘political protocol’, but it is time political protocol was stuffed in Mr Speaker’s mouth and let the truth be told. The tory’s regime of murder is hardly political protocol.
    Otherwise fascist caMoron will perpetually hide behind his filthy curtain of lies.

  5. Tom Thomson June 24, 2015 at 9:35 pm - Reply

    ‘real-life numbers’ (of deaths), I like that

  6. Tomaz June 24, 2015 at 10:17 pm - Reply

    Cameron is fine with having moron cabinet members doing the maths in cutting costs and the welfare reform how astounding that his colleagues like G Osborne and IDS actually don’t have the proper OR irrelevant qualifications to be doing their jobs???

  7. argotina1 June 24, 2015 at 11:11 pm - Reply

    I’ve been expecting something like this. They publish figures on benefit sanctions twice yearly, but they do it in such a way that it is impossible to tell how many people are actually sanctioned at any one time.

  8. maz June 25, 2015 at 3:08 am - Reply

    shouldnt the figures include deaths not just from esa but pip also and donot forget if they published the figures of all those who had tried and not succeeded i belive the figures would be shockingly higher but either way the goverment wont show the actual figures just a percentage mad up on a fudged up system as usual

    • Mike Sivier June 25, 2015 at 1:31 pm - Reply

      I asked for figures following on from those that had been released, covering Jan-Nov 2011. PIP/DLA figures are relevant but would confuse matters if they were added in here.

  9. Wayne Leon June 25, 2015 at 5:49 am - Reply

    We want the truth about benefit-releated deaths and we want the truth NOW!

  10. Patrick June 25, 2015 at 7:45 am - Reply

    Copied to Dave’s FB page with this comment. ‘Oh dear me Dave. There are lies, damned lies and your government’s use of statistics (especially the DWP) Seems we won’t get the figures asked for in the freedom of information request just some statistical fudge. Do you really think we will be satisfied?’

    • Mike Sivier June 25, 2015 at 1:27 pm - Reply

      Thanks very much!
      I keep forgetting he’s got a page.

    • crazytrucker1951 June 25, 2015 at 8:01 pm - Reply

      I don’t FB or Tw*tter, but your post reminds me of an Oxford Union debate, yes I went to Oxford, in ’88 or ’89, on “Does This House Think The NHS Is Safe In Tory Hands?”. Ken Clarke was Health Secretary at the time when an NHS Hospital doctor blew the gaffe on Ken when he stated that if a patient arrived at the hospital dead on arrival that was counted as being treated by the NHS! Uproar ensued. Just an aside one of the idiots speaking from the floor that night was one Jakob Rees-Mogg, yes in those days he spelt his name with a “k” who was a Nazi then, as he is now and was all for flogging the NHS even then. He now sits as an MP for a West Country Constituency on the Tory backbenches, a real hang ’em high, chase the Foxes to horrible deaths type of guy, and there our future lies in his hands, god forbid he ever does get his hands on the reigns of power then we really will be in the brown and smelly stuff up to our eyeballs! Incidentally I was a mature student, not of his generation fortunately.

  11. Lil June 25, 2015 at 7:47 am - Reply

    With FOI requests, the key is the phrasing of the request. Once we’ve seen how doctored these figures are, it would be great if everyone reading this and other blogs would work out and submit another, carefully phrased, request.

  12. Michelle June 25, 2015 at 7:52 am - Reply

    ”publishing figures relating to people who have died while claiming benefit.” Plus that’s people who died WHILE claiming benefits, so would it include people who died because they had their benefits stopped…

  13. crazytrucker1951 June 25, 2015 at 9:44 am - Reply

    Just how much longer will the population of this once great country tolerate this Tory hypocrisy, lies, half-truths and simple plain evil? Who ever thought that a Government of this country would sanction murder? This makes us no better than the third world countries we condemn for similar crimes against humanity. At least they are open and above board about the atrocities they commit. How low can the Tories stoop? They’re in the gutter now, only the sewers left.

  14. Scotty June 25, 2015 at 9:48 am - Reply

    We all know ANY statistic released by the inveterate liars in this murderous Tory government will have more spin on it than a gyroscope on methamphetamine so why is anyone in the slightest bit surprised they want to “fudge” this set of figures?
    It’s to be hoped the Information Commissioner is able to force them into complying with the FOI request as made and not as some swindling set of fabricated hogwash figures but it’s unlikely The Wassock of Witney and Obergruppenfuhrer Smith could ever conceive of doing something honest and decent for a change.
    To paraphrase a newspaper headline some of you might recall, there’s lies, there’s damned lies and there’s Tory statistics!

  15. E. T> de Mowbray aka Tam Giles June 25, 2015 at 11:09 am - Reply

    As I was born in 1930 I seem to remember a certain Nasty Party in Germany had it in for those considered unfit or racially undesirable but I am old so my memory may be mistaken. ??

  16. tiddk June 25, 2015 at 5:01 pm - Reply

    Shared on FAcebook.

  17. Spamlet June 26, 2015 at 2:36 am - Reply

    Isn’t there a good chance that adjusted figures would be higher, because people under assessment are not a normal population. Gov may have screwed up, because they should be comparing with *sick* people who did not have their benefits cut, for which you would get a smaller but truer figure.

    However, to make up our own minds we need to know both the age and medical condition for each person: not just raw data.

    • Mike Sivier June 26, 2015 at 9:35 am - Reply

      You aren’t going to get people’s medical conditions because the DWP likes to keep that secret – it provides the ambiguity that allows them to say it’s irresponsible to suggest that deaths are due to ‘welfare reform’.
      The thing is, we want to know how many people have died – in ‘real numbers’ terms – because that’s the information we had before. We need to be able to compare the numbers we’ve had with the numbers now.
      The fact that we don’t know what killed people in the support group doesn’t affect the logical conclusion – it would be irresponsible to suggest ‘welfare reform’ hasn’t led to the deaths until the DWP can put up empirical evidence to the contrary. The government can’t say that all deaths in this group are due to their natural health condition because we know that the work capability assessment and reassessment procedure causes excessive stress which attacks people’s health.
      People in any other category aren’t expected to die at all; they’re expected to get better. If they die, it seems clear that the system has failed.

      • Nick June 28, 2015 at 11:48 am - Reply

        you are right mike and when the DWP have visited me in the past they know everything about me my Facebook page twitter bank account details the lot
        I don’t mind but it’s just i have no privacy of course publicly they say i do have but i know different

  18. casalealex July 1, 2015 at 4:36 pm - Reply

    “We are increasingly governed not by law or elected representatives, but by an unelected, unrepresentative, unaccountable committee of lawyers applying no will but their own, to disregard, manipulate, ”

    Cameron has had the figures for some time, and we all know they are not going to be the whole truth, (if any real truth in them at all).

    Some of us are fully aware of the deceitfulness of this ‘government’. It’s blatant mendacity, and it’s propensity for hiding, mislaying, and constantly covering up the results of their wilful retroactivity of a number of laws.

    They will do whatever it takes to delay publication, or even come up with some ‘judicial’ excuse for the dismantling of any inquiry which shows they are at fault!

    “Official’ inquiries still awaiting publication, and or government decisions on their results, include:

    1. UN report on Raquel Rolnik’s investigation on GB Bedroom Tax

    2. The Iraq Inquiry – called The Chilcott Report – which was officially launched on 30 July 2009.

    3. The statutory Independent Inquiry into Child Abuse – so far three Chairmen have been named.

    4. Gibson Inquiry Report into post 9/11 rendition, not published, but was handed over to Intelligence and Security Committee – No report yet.

    5. Child Sexual Exploitation in Gangs and Groups: One year on – publication by the Children’s Commissioner. This brought about The Children and Families Act 2014 changed the Children’s Commissioner’s remit and role.

    Other Inquiries:
    The government is investigating an information loss, relating to 3 independent judge-led inquiries.

    The independent inquiries in question are the Azelle Rodney Inquiry, the Robert Hamill Inquiry and the Mark Duggan Inquest. All 3 have completed their work, although the Hamill Inquiry has yet to publish its report.

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